retro_eidas | new fandom + the quincy key

Just when I can't possibly be barraged with yet another fandom... another comes along of course. Within a few months, "Firefly" infected me like the plague. Then SGA came along. The newest edition to obsessive-compulsive speculating insanity? Bleach. For the non-otaku and/or minus a DLing fetish, you might not be familiar with this slice of fanon and thus this entry will mean absolutely nothing. However, it's the current hot item in anime... and my soul is all but it's bitch at the moment.

Also special thanks to new friends

_debbiechan_ and

mrs_urahara that propagate the :cough:hot Quincy:cough: speculating madness. Since I can't seem to join a fandom without being able to nerdily speculate about it ad infinitum, I'm not sure these poor folks realize what they've gotten themselves into. If either of you bother to read this, I apologize. A lot of it will be retread from bits of our "Significant Filler" discussion over at

soul_society.

"The person who will protect this era... A Quincy is this key person." (not verbatim)
Oh the ridiculous amount of questions that statement has made for me... but it makes the sad, sad fangirl tingly in more naughty parts than I'd care to admit.

What exactly did Yoshino mean by a Quincy being "the key to save this era"? How do the Bound know this piece of information? Sounds like the makings of an impending prophecy reveal to me. Ishida part of some massive Bound prophecy... or just a prophecy in general? Something not necessarily limited to the Bound? Ryuuken? Souken? The Quincy (at least prior their genocide)? Perhaps more importantly (and scarily), the Shinigami?

Entirely hypotheticaly speaking... if the (or some... I'd say, Aizen and probably some or all of deceased Central 46) of the Shinigami are aware of this speculated prophecy regarding the Quincy and if the nature of the prophecy were threatening/apocalyptic/universe-altering/etc etc enough... What kind of precautions might they have taken? We already know now what they're capable of regarding those damn obstinate Quincy, so stubborn and proud to the point of imbalancing and threatening the end of the world they had to be permanently removed from the equation (or so we're told)... could they be capable of much more? Taking a look at Aizen, Gin and Mayuri... or hell, even those with 'good' intentions as Tousen, Yamamoto, Hinamori, Urahara and Byakuya... I'm truthfully afraid of the full extent of things they're capable of (whether it's willfully or unintentionally... by duty, honor, curiosity, misplaced justice or manipulation). Whatever their intentions. Who watches the Watchmen, indeed.

Was Mayuri purely satisfying his own insatiably sick curiousity regarding all his (apparently, mass amounts of) Quincy experiments? Or was there something more to it than that? Was he also going by orders? Orders from whom?

Was the Quincy Extermination of 200 years ago really unavoidable? Furthermore, if the extermination was such a "hard" decision as Rukia was told (via Urahara presumedly)... why or how did Mayuri get access to desecrate so many (I believe the number ranged around 1600+) Quincy for the sake of his experiments? Was he just that sly he could abscond with that many souls and go unnoticed? He doesn't seem to take much tact in keeping the Quincy experiments a secret if they're supposed to be secret (hell, he apparently carried around a memento on his person of at least one of the his favorite test subjects... Uryuu's grandfather/sensei, Souken) and he was talking about said experiments openly in Soul Society. Cpt. Kyouraku's departing comments to him in ep71 would also make me lean towards Mayuri's hobbies not necessarily secrets (and what does Kyouraku and possibly the other Shinigami know exactly about those hobbies?). I do unfortunately find it hard to believe the Shinigami didn't have some general idea what was happening to those Quincy. If Ryuuken has any kind of fuel in reigniting Uryuu's hatred of the Death Gods, this probably would be his coup de grace.

In regards to the above paragraph... one could speculate every action Ryuuken has taken was in part of some greater purpose, one that he believes (as did Souken?) is destined for Uryuu.

What exactly did Urahara do that was so bad that led to his exile from Soul Society? Particularly considering some of Mengele-taicho's hobbies (and he isn't only still partaking in said hobbies, but is the current 12th Division Captain. The frickin' promoted him. Jesus). What did he do that was so much worse than what Mayuri has done/is doing? Sure the Hogyoku could be bad enough. However... I do wonder if Mayuri has friends in very high places. He may not have ascended into ~~Hell~~Heaven a la Aizen, but another compadre perhaps?

I'm also wondering if Urahara's exile was so involuntary as it sounds. The word "exile" tends to exclaim 'involuntary', of course and I don't doubt it was completely serious and all forcible on the part of Shinigami's ruling body ... but I can't help but wonder just a little 'self-imposed' might factor in as well? Ditto Tessai (who I'd bet anything was Urahara's koutaicho), Yoriuchi and Isshin. I mean to say, Urahara might not have completely regretted leaving. Urahara, possibly Tessai, Yoriuchi and Isshin... all were in *high* positions of power. Until they were just... not anymore. Could it be they may have learned some very dirty and very ugly secrets about SS and wanted to leave (in utter moral disagreement and possibly in fear of their lives. Loose lips sink ~~hell~~heaven-bound ships, after all)? Yoruichi took it all a step further and was apparently all but *dead* to the Shinigami for a CENTURY. Since I don't follow the manga as closely as I probably should... I'd guess Isshin also possibly faked his death (my guess? Kenpachi believes he'd killed him. Isshin just screams former 11th Division taicho to me).

And on an entirely unrelated venue... what the hell is Cpt. Komamura? Unfortunate recipient of a high level demon spell gone bad? Youkai? Possibly more likely, a hanyou (he seems to have a similar sort of shame/angst as young Inuyasha did. Consequence of a taboo youkai/human union... and made to feel that way most of his life, up until meeting Commander Yamamoto and Tousen)?

Current Mood: working off a pocky high
Current Music: corcovado - everything but the girl

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

eido.livejournal.com

gah!! so upset I started writing a response to the first paragrap....and lost it!! eeekkkk!!

I frickin' HATE when that happens! LJ has an Autosave Draft feature though, did you try hitting the back (or forward) button to see what happened?

hmm, my thoughts seem to steer more toward that it has to do with the bound tunnel thing.

That could definitely be. The Quincy Key may solely be referring to the immediate Jin/Bound threat. Why would Yoshino know about the issue with Aizen and the Shinigami troubles? Then again, we have characters like Urahara and Ryuuken who seem to know so much more and outside of the limits of their spheres than they let on... Is Jin's mission mostly self-serving or is he yet another part of the Aizen situation? A la the Arrancar/Vaizards in the manga.

From:

mrs-urahara.livejournal.com

you know... YOshino talked about Gin (bound gin) wanting to "bend" the rules to take living human souls. Now, if you think that Aizen is a meglomaniac of the spirit domain, Gin, from a "darwinian" perspective, could be justin survival mode and want to be strong enough to not see the fate of his "people" end like the quincies. Of course, his actions are far from altrustic, there is definitely a corruption in his lust for power.

i was thinking how Uryuu says he is the last quincy...but, TECHNICALLY, he is not. His father IS a quincy, but CHOSE anothre path instead, in order to provide for his family. which, ironically, brings about that whole qiuncy pride of "self-sacrifice". I feel like part of the "angst" between Ryuuken and Ishida stems from their views of self-sacrifice. AND, a quincy is about saving human souls..his father SAVES human lives.

adding another can of worms to the pot...i have more. ^____^

From:

eido.livejournal.com

YOshino talked about Gin (bound gin) wanting to "bend" the rules to take living human souls. Now, if you think that Aizen is a meglomaniac of the spirit domain, Gin, from a "darwinian" perspective

It also could be the Jin and the Bound (maybe several other supernatural factions out there we have yet to learn about) - who haven't seemed to have chosen a side - are taking precautions due to the (universal) Aizen threat. No matter how cruel they may seem to the less spirit-powered, simply based on survival. Everyone preparing themselves for some huge impending conflict... which would make sense considering how much Aizen likely shook things up for everyone. Of course, if the Bound aren't the only ones now switched onto survival mode... things are going to get a lot worse for the puny humans than better and it's not like the Shinigami can really protect them (they can barely cover there own asses most of the time as it would seem. Aizen fucked them over so thoroughly, it's hard not to notice SS just wasn't as tight an organization as they likely may have believed they were).

i was thinking how Uryuu says he is the last quincy...but, TECHNICALLY, he is not. His father IS a quincy, but CHOSE anothre path instead, in order to provide for his family. which, ironically, brings about that whole qiuncy pride of "self-sacrifice".

I'm going off on a slight tangent - of which I'm once again going to entirely blame

_debbiechan_ for for planting the Ryuuken/Isshin relationship in my brain, but... - I'd actually been wondering this morning while in the shower if Masaki may have been another Quincy in hiding a la Ryuuken. Either another one of the last but non-Ishida (thus Ryuuken was desperately wooing, to no avail) OR, possibly more likely, a close relation to the Ishidas. Maybe an Ishida herself (Ryuuken's sister?). This would add a whole element of forbidden love to Isshin and Masaki outside of the Shinigami/Human aspect... it's elevated to Shinigami/Quincy (thus why it was so important for Isshin to leave the Shinigami to be with her. It's one thing she was a human, but a Quincy to boot?).

Ryuuken may have been so disgusted at this turn of events, he completely disowns Masaki from the family as if she never existed. Of course, tells his son absolutely nothing about her and forbids Souken to mention her as well... or he threatens to cut off Uryuu. Souken might have been planning on telling Uryuu about Masaki anyway, but when he was older... which didn't happen since Souken died of course. Maybe even stripping her of the family name (thus why Ichigo never heard "Ishida" prior the pissing contest between him and Uryuu).

I realize this is all utter crack and again mostly based on nothing, but I noticed that the color of Ichigo's power when he powers up is bright blue, when he/Zangetsu glows it's blue ... just like Uryuu's Quincy bow/powers, particularly during the fight with Mayuri. And, of course, include all of

_debbiechan_'s adamance that Ryuuken and Isshin may have quite likely known or knew of each other? ;)

From:

mrs-urahara.livejournal.com

are taking precautions due to the (universal) Aizen threat. No matter how cruel they may seem to the less spirit-powered, simply based on survival. Everyone preparing themselves for some huge impending conflict... which would make sense considering how much Aizen likely shook things up for everyone."
-- this leads me to feel that perhaps this arc is going to be the "cannnon" arc leading up to the arrancar arc for the anime. That would be fabulous. Seeing that the last mini anime arc lead to the bound arc (urahara pulls in the reference of how those Konpaktus helped them prepare for this kind of situation), i really am just putting my positive energetic juices into hoping the animes are using this to catapult the start of the arrancar arc. AND i REALLLY hope they include the pre-cursor leading up to the arc (i.e. isshin being a shinigami, ryuuken's appearacne. I CANNOT WAIT to see hotpappas come to anime life. MEYOW!!)

"Aizen fucked them over so thoroughly, it's hard not to notice SS just wasn't as tight an organization as they likely may have believed they were"
---mmm that first clause makes Aizen soo hot. *smaks lips* but yeh, totally agree, and at the end of the soul society arc, i believe it's Utikake who states what you just wrote...well not the Aizen f*king part..but the other stuff. heh-heh

" if Masaki may have been another Quincy in hiding a la Ryuuken. Either another one of the last but non-Ishida (thus Ryuuken was desperately wooing, to no avail) OR, possibly more likely, a close relation to the Ishidas. Maybe an Ishida herself"
---Yeah, i have thought about that too..but, then i would think that the kids would have some sort of QUincy powers...this is why it will be interesting to see how Karin's "powers" pan out. AND, the fact that little Yuzu has none. it also makes me feel, from Yuzu, that Masaki was a human with perhaps just an incredible soul.

"Maybe an Ishida herself (Ryuuken's sister?). This would add a whole element of forbidden love to Isshin and Masaki outside of the Shinigami/Human aspect... it's elevated to Shinigami/Quincy (thus why it was so important for Isshin to leave the Shinigami to be with her. It's one thing she was a human, but a Quincy to boot?)."
---possibly. I DEFINITELY believe that there IS a "fobidden love" element in Masaki/Isshin. I deem the fact that Isshin agve up being a shinigami for her is proof that there is more to their love story (again i would LOVE to see a movie or special hour ep dedicated to some of the back story) and Kubo leads us to believe that Isshin is also hiding just as much as Urahara. And, actually, when you think about it, Urahara is a bit more upfront about his hidden motives moreso than Isshin is about his secret past. It will be interesting to see what kind of confrontation will ensue when Ichigo finds out. HELLLOOOO teen angst. ^___^

but I noticed that the color of Ichigo's power when he powers up is bright blue, when he/Zangetsu glows it's blue ... just like Uryuu's Quincy bow/powers"
-- most of the shingami captains turn a beautiful blue when they are increasing their spirit force. Remember Hitsu and Gin's fight. NOt to mention when Kaien was fighting..or Utikake and SHunsui. THey all have that "heavenly" blue glow. If you look at it from the eastern notions of "chackras" ...there colours would concur with the colour of spiritual awarness and power. In western belief/symbology heaven seems to have the colour of the sky, too. neh?

"And, of course, include all of _debbiechan_'s adamance that Ryuuken and Isshin may have quite likely known or knew of each other? ;)"
-- THe screamin mimi fangurl in me sooooo wants to see some angsty past between the two hot pappas. that's just plain hot. ^___^

speaking of _debbiechan_ . . . where is she in all this??? i am surprised she would not comment.

is she on your friend's list? hmmm..i'll have to shoot her a wee pm and tell her to jump on in this action. NO way she would want to miss out. this is too good! ^_____^

From:

eido.livejournal.com

this leads me to feel that perhaps this arc is going to be the "cannnon" arc leading up to the arrancar arc for the anime.

I have a feeling Kubo may be saving the Arrancar for something big in the anime. They are, more or less, part of Aizen's special army, aren't they?

then i would think that the kids would have some sort of QUincy powers...this is why it will be interesting to see how Karin's "powers" pan out. AND, the fact that little Yuzu has none.

Doesn't Yuzu have some powers? Something about knowing ghosts are there, but she just can't see them. Also possibly Hollow too, but her powers seem to be something akin to Anime!Tatsuki's at the moment. There was also that whole ghost!neko filler storyline.

I think it could be more due to Yuzu's age her powers aren't as strong as Karin's or Ichigo's... yet. I believe she is the youngest of the Kurosaki kids. I think Ichigo mentioned once when he was a kid his abilities weren't nearly as strong as they were when he got older (just prior Rukia coming into his life). It's also possible she might need extra (Quincy?) training to develop her particular abilities despite her proximity to super-powered Ichigo.

most of the shingami captains turn a beautiful blue when they are increasing their spirit force. Remember Hitsu and Gin's fight.

Actually, I think the only captain's aura that's blue or blueish is Hitsugaya (Gin is light purple, matching his hair). Although Hitsugaya's definitely has a green sort of tint, kind of aquamarine (probably due to the ice).

Since I was just waiting for an excuse to post pictures of pretty boys in my LJ ;) Here are Shikai!Ichigo and Ishida side by side to contrast and compare.

Maybe there's a connection, but it could all be a mute point anyway. Ichigo's bankai color, similar to Tousen, is black (wearing Zangetsu's raggedy jacket) and black/red when Anti-Ichi takes over. Totally different from his shikai.

speaking of _debbiechan_ . . . where is she in all this???

I think I might have scared her off with all my mass quantities of jibbering above (I slammed her with three replies of utter rambling for one of her posts). LOL

From:

mrs-urahara.livejournal.com

" think it could be more due to Yuzu's age her powers aren't as strong as Karin's or Ichigo's... yet. I believe she is the youngest of the Kurosaki kids. I think Ichigo mentioned once when he was a kid his abilities weren't nearly as strong as they were when he got older"
--well, karin and Yuzu are exactly the same age. They are twins. Yet, Yuzu definitely acts more like her age than Karin. Ichigo talked how Karin basically "shut down" her emotions after Masaki died and "toughened" up. Whereas, Yuzu, being the same age, seems to be more emotionally open and in some ways, not as "mature" as Karin? or rather she is just softer, like Masaki was. You are right, in the manga, Kubo does refer to Yuzu in the beginning knowing they are there, but not seeing them.But, i think she also said she didn't want to see them. WHereas, Karin, from the start, sees them. I think it's the hollows she could sense, but not see. It will be interesting to see how Kubo pans it all out.

"Ichigo's bankai color, similar to Tousen, is black (wearing Zangetsu's raggedy jacket) and black/red when Anti-Ichi takes over. Totally different from his shikai."
-- that, my dear Eido, is a thread unto itself. this manga is symbolically and philosphically rich..my head explodes at the prospect. ^___^

"I think I might have scared her off with all my mass quantities of jibbering above (I slammed her with three replies of utter rambling for one of her posts). LOL"
--Heh-heh. I have done the same thing to her. But, i think she enjoys it. I am wondering, if, with the move and all, her time is not as spacious as she may want it, at present. It'd be interesting to see her input in all this. not to say i don't enjoy our one-on-one intense discussions. If anything, it seems to increase my passion for this manga/anime even more. ^___^

p.s. love the pics.

From:

eido.livejournal.com

well, karin and Yuzu are exactly the same age. They are twins.

See, I thought that too, but I could have sworn I read somewhere at

soul_society that Kubo was asked about that and said they weren't twins. Which confused me, still does.

From:

mrs-urahara.livejournal.com

ahh...they are twins...at least according to the manga..unless Kubo-san is changing it. It is in vol3, pg 55. Ichigo is reminscining about how much they all loved Masaki and he says "karin and Yuzu, who were 4 at the time". I know their ages are mentioned again somewhere about them both being 10. But, i could also swear he makes mention of them being twins. *runs to go check*
off to find that out! OH!! and, Yuku, in the first couple pages of the first chapter mentions how she does see them (ghosts) but they are blurry to her...and Karin is the one who refuses to see them, even though she does. Yuzu mentions how "daddy is the only one who can't"

From:

eido.livejournal.com

Perhaps the Quincy Yoshino had been referring to, the "key in protecting this era", was actually Masaki? Damn me for not sticking with the Japanese in college, but was Yoshino referring to the Quincy Key in the past or present tense? Did the Quincy have to be living now? It could be the result of Masaki's still-living actions, the key was creating her progeny (namely the massively spirit-powered Ichigo) - the Kurosaki children, or Ichigo, as the protectors? However, this would also work in a more literal and present sense with another possible Quincy ... how much of a shock would it be if it turned out it wasn't Ryuuken or Uryuu - the last (known) living Quincy - Yoshino was referring to.... but Yuzu? Yuzu - as opposed to Ichigo and Karin who seem more like Isshin and Shinigami-esque - who always seemed to take more after her mother... from her physical traits to her demeanor. Maybe her spirit-power takes after Masaki as well? Spirit power that has yet to unleash fully... it hasn't because, perhaps, Yuzu needs those of her own kind to help unleash it (Cousin Uryuu and/or Uncle Ryuuken)?

Of course, the idea of this just makes my ovaries all twisty... the image of Cousin Uryuu one day all sweetly teaching little Kurosaki Yuzu just like Grandpa Souken taught him. If that couldn't get him a girlfriend, I don't know what would.

Also regarding that tragic Quincy habit of "self-sacrifice".... Masaki very likely threw her own body in front of the Grand Fisher protecting Ichigo. Sacrificing herself to protect her son.

And, undoubtedly, Uryuu and Ichigo discovering they're blood related would inevitably provide for many scenes of new levels of comedy, camaraderie and drama. We see how protective Ichigo is of his family and Uryuu is still adamant on propagating this Shinigami/Quincy feud despite his grandfather's opinions (add the manga Ryuuken conflict to it and it gets even more dramatic). Yet Ichigo and Uryuu have been family all along and not realized it... the potential to end the centuries-old feud between the Shinigami and the Quincy. This could be more reason for Ryuuken to want to keep his son and Ichigo apart.... if the friendship was left to grow on it's own vices, it could be only a matter of time before they start figuring things out for themselves... and Ryuuken won't let that happen. Particularly if any of the Kurosaki kids (particularly Yuzu) started displaying Quincy abilities.

This could also explain Ichigo's *massive* spirit-power. Shinigami/Quincy parents? Such a pairing probably would garner massively strong children.

From:

mrs-urahara.livejournal.com

"was referring to.... but Yuzu? Yuzu - as opposed to Ichigo and Karin who seem more like Isshin and Shinigami-esque - who always seemed to take more after her mother... from her physical traits to her demeanor. Maybe her spirit-power takes after Masaki as well?"
---COULD YOUI IMAGINE?!?! now i would REALLY hope that Kubo would have his hand in this somehow. Though, a part of me, really wants Masaki to perhaps have something other than that..or nothing at all. you know? A part of me is hoping for a delectably sordid past between masaki, isshin and & ryuuken. Maybe she was a quincy. omg! i'll have to really let this one sit and see if there is ANYTHING that could somehow support that. ^___^

"the image of Cousin Uryuu one day all sweetly teaching little Kurosaki Yuzu just like Grandpa Souken taught him. If that couldn't get him a girlfriend, I don't know what would."
-- the only thing that would factor in here is that Ichigo's character does not play well with ishida being of familial relations, neh? Even though they seemed to have a "friendship" during the souls society arc, there was definitely that, as Yoruichi said of Ganjun & Ichigo, this "male chest thumping" between the two. I could not see Ichigo really being comfortable with Yuzu teaching his little sister. It would threaten his status not only as the brother, but as this overwhelming need for him to be the protector of his younger siblings. which leads me to your other interesting prospect..

"Also regarding that tragic Quincy habit of "self-sacrifice".... Masaki very likely threw her own body in front of the Grand Fisher protecting Ichigo. Sacrificing herself to protect her son."
-- so true!! though, here is some kindling to add to that hypothetic spark: I wonder if it was also a motherly thing to do. I know many a mother who would sacrifice their life for the sake of their children, neh? but, she could have that added layer of being a qiuncy to it, too. hmmmmm...

"the potential to end the centuries-old feud between the Shinigami and the Quincy. This could be more reason for Ryuuken to want to keep his son and Ichigo apart.... if the friendship was left to grow on it's own vices, it could be only a matter of time before they start figuring things out for themselves... and Ryuuken won't let that happen. Particularly if any of the Kurosaki kids (particularly Yuzu) started displaying Quincy abilities."
--- gah! so INTERESTING!!!! i see where you are coming from!
yet, ichigo seems to be the catalyst for everyone realising their spiritual abilities. Yoruichi or was it Urahara tells both Chad and Orihime that because Ichigo opened up his spiritual powers even more, when he "took over" Rukia's powers, it awakened their own. not to mention, Karin wonders how her brother has to do with her being able to see hollows and the dead and what his connection to it all is. I deem it is fair to say that the same would go for Tatsuki, whose own powers are now starting to awaken, probably due the increase of Ichigo's powers. not to mention, now, Asago's? it seems that, if Yuzu had ANY spiritual capabilty, quincy or otherwise, Ichigo would have something to do with that seed awakening.

AND>....a part of me wonders, PERHAPS, this is ALSO why Isshin gave up his shinigami powers. If he wanted him and his family to live a normal life, he would have to contain those powers, so as to not affect his children's awakenings. If Ichigo was able to see them when he was young, it must meant that Ichigo was already born with more powerful latent abilities. Actually, in reality, Rukia was the true catalyst. She said that herself, that perhaps, her interaction with him in the beginning of the manga, awakened latent spiritual powers. If he ahd that much energy for someone soo young....Masaki MUST play into somehow..and it could be that Quincy powers magnified this...

which is what you said: "This could also explain Ichigo's *massive* spirit-power. Shinigami/Quincy parents? Such a pairing probably would garner massively strong children"

dang...too many words....the rest in a following post

From:

eido.livejournal.com

the only thing that would factor in here is that Ichigo's character does not play well with ishida being of familial relations, neh?

Despite the initial shock, I actually think Ichi would come to think of Ishida like a brother if he were related to him... or even if he weren't (in this spec, they'd technically be first cousins). He already protects him just by being friends (and Ishida being powerless at the moment). Ichigo definitely seems to have a "blood is thicker than water" mindset to him and he made a vow he'd protect his family... if that turned out to include Ishida, then he'd openly welcome him. Ichigo often reminds me of Goku in that way... with the exceptions like those really evil opponents like Frieza or Raditz, he fought several powerful enemies but then eventually ended up developing a macho camaraderie with them and they'd go to barbecues together. It's amusing. Renji, Kenpachi, Ikkaku, Ishida all seem to be in that 'macho camaraderie' area with Ichigo.... all of which were former enemies.

Ishida would probably have the bigger problem accepting it, but he's also already friends with Ichigo (despite what Ryuuken may do to try and drive a wedge between them) ... whatever problem he may have, it may have more to do with the secrets keepers than Ichigo himself.

It would threaten his status not only as the brother, but as this overwhelming need for him to be the protector of his younger siblings.

Chad protected Karin and Ichigo didn't have a problem with it. I don't think he'd have a problem with Uryuu becoming Yuzu's sensei. Especially if his own beloved mother herself was a Quincy (whether she knew it or not).

I wonder if it was also a motherly thing to do.

Oh I definitely think that factored in, no question. It was her son and further we clearly see how especially devoted Masaki and Ichigo were to each other. That could have been all there was to it... but my honest opinion? I do think there was indeed more to it than that, which is what we and a rabble of folks have been speculating right along like junkies, yes? ;)

ichigo seems to be the catalyst for everyone realising their spiritual abilities.

What's kind of interesting about that is, although Ichigo did basically cause the spark that awakened - for example - Chad's and Orihime's abilities, it wasn't until the duel Ishida initiated with Ichigo and called for the Hollows that those powers finally came to fruition. Ironic, isn't it? Ichigo was like the first step and Ishida the last before their powers finally erupted.

if Yuzu had ANY spiritual capabilty, quincy or otherwise, Ichigo would have something to do with that seed awakening.

Possibly, but then Yuzu is very young. It could be her powers have indeed already awakened, but due to her age they're not as developed yet. Yuzu also doesn't have a grandpa to teach her the ropes like Uryuu had. Her own father is a secret former Shinigami... and none of his kids have the slightest idea. Uryuu was lucky in that he had knowledge and history of what he was c/o his grandfather/sensei ... not so much for the Kurosakis (apart from their non-chalance about ghost seeing/sensing).

From:

mrs-urahara.livejournal.com

It;s all coming together now. I completely understand where you are going with this now.

You helped me see things in Ichigo that I forgot about. You are right: Ishida, is part of this "macho" bond that Ichigo has with some of the other shinigami. And, You reminded me that Ishida is the one really carrying more of the grudge about q vs s than Ichigo. AND, if they were related...I think it would be comedic food for fodder.

I see exactly what you mean that Rukia awakened the shinigami in Ichigo and Ishida awakened it even more, when Ichigo defeated the Menos Grande (LOVE how Kubo-san is into spanish phrases and culture--ee chado-- being half brazilian myself, it gives me hope that maybe I could date a hottie nihonjin--heehee). Then, I remembered, too, that it was also Ishida combinig his power with Ichgio's that really catapulted his reiatsu to a point that Ishida put his differences aside to "save" Ichigo.

and, maybe Ichigo would not have a foreseeable issue (though i could see comedic entanglments arise) when Ishida "trains" little Yuzu. You are right, that if he knew his mum was a Quincy, he would want Yuzu to have that, regargless of his "chest-thumping" boughts with Ishida.

Now, given all this..is still seems a little unlikely that Kubo-san would make the Ishida clan and Kurosaki clan related, by blood..but by spiritual powers (i.e. Masaki being a Quincy) there is that possibility....DEFINITELY!

From:

eido.livejournal.com

LOVE how Kubo-san is into spanish phrases and culture

Although I don't know what Kubo is playing at. Why are all the villains using the Spanish, eh?! Arrancar, Espadas, "Hueco Mundo" (technically it should be Mundo hueco, but since it's a proper name it can slide by for the bad grammar)? Chad is of Mexican descent, but his name isn't Hispanic in origin, it's Japanese. LOL Kubo have some bad experience in a Latin American country or something? Seriously though, I have wondered if that's Kubo's possible shout-out to the Mexican Day of the Dead... the Spanish, a character of Mexican descent. The Hollows and the masks often remind me of the calaveras you always see around Mexico in the beginning of November.

Now, given all this..is still seems a little unlikely that Kubo-san would make the Ishida clan and Kurosaki clan related

After I thought about it, I also doubt they're related. I can't remember if it was the anime or manga (maybe both) where Ishida said Soul Society was keeping a close eye on his grandfather. We still have a lot to learn about Ryuuken and his clandestine behavior (was he being monitored too? If so where is he training Uryuu?). If Souken was being watched so closely, Masaki may have been as well... if that were the case, SS should already know what/who Ichigo's mother was and I don't really get that impression. If Masaki was a Quincy (and she didn't know it), she probably wasn't an Ishida.

From:

mrs-urahara.livejournal.com

"Seriously though, I have wondered if that's Kubo's possible shout-out to the Mexican Day of the Dead... the Spanish, a character of Mexican descent. The Hollows and the masks often remind me of the calaveras you always see around Mexico in the beginning of November"
--hmm...that's interesting. There is a bit of correlation between the hollows and the Mexican day of the dead thing. Also, i know when I asked my friend Yukiko about the new interest the japanese have with the spanish (kubo is not hte only one)...she said "well, we already really know about america and europe, the spanish-speaking countries are soo new to japanese culture, so it is fascinating for us". she's so cute. ^____^

"I can't remember if it was the anime or manga (maybe both) where Ishida said Soul Society was keeping a close eye on his grandfather."
--it was in both. But, in the fight with Mayuri, Mayuri KNEW about Ishida..he just could not remember his name. Which was interesting, for i guess they saw that Uryuu was no threat or use to them. So, i also wonder, if Ryuuken also did it to save his butt, not just to save his family. Maybe he feared, that being the provider and caretaker with of his family, he felt a duty and obligation to renounce his quincy powers. If you remember, Souken gives that speech about finding the thing you want to protect. I think Ryuuken did just that. I deem his resentment toward his father, Souken, may be that he renounced the quincy heritage to protect his family, and ina way, Souken was "disobeying" Ryuuken's decision by training Uryuu.

"Masaki may have been as well... if that were the case, SS should already know what/who Ichigo's mother was and I don't really get that impression. If Masaki was a Quincy (and she didn't know it), she probably wasn't an Ishida"
--tru. they would have known her, more importantly...i am convinced Isshin's surname is a disguised one, otherwise, how would Ichigo's last name go so blindly unnoticed..unless it's that kent clark thing again.

I don't think Masaki was an Ishida...but she's definitely something! If anything food for our intellectual musings and hopefully a future plot/character arc resolution. ^___^

From:

eido.livejournal.com

i guess they saw that Uryuu was no threat or use to them.

That could very well be. Going back to the original conspiracy theory, the seeming 'threat' to the Shinigami / universe / whathaveyou that the Shinigami feard would have been intermarrying/breeding between Quincy and Shinigami (thus, per our theories, risking release of the inner-demon/Hollow ... in other words, Quincy + Shinigami = Hogyoku or natural Hogyoku, in this case). Ryuuken may have kept himself and his son safe by proving to Central 46 his total agreement in segregation from their affairs. He also likely vowed he'd keep his son from mingling with the Shinigami also.... thus protecting his family (and explaining Ryuuken's stipulation in training Uryuu. Ryuuken is using the training as blackmail to keep Uryuu away from his newfound - Shinigami - friends).

Ryuuken also could be training Uryuu due to the now unavoidable impending threat coming (partly thanks to Uryuu revealing himself in Soul Society but also due to the Aizen situation)? A threat he knows could very likely be directed right at them as the last of the Quincy (in theory, the vital ingredient to the Hogyoku creation)?

Souken, however, kept approaching Central 46 asking them to unite the Shinigami and Quincy forces... considering our conspiracy theory, of course, Central 46 rejected him every time. Until Mayuri finally got to him silencing him forever.

However, I do wonder, if one family like the Ishidas managed to hide / keep safe from the Shinigami... could there be more Quincy out there in hiding? In our specs, Masaki's family was another one of those families. Allbeit, likely not very many Quincy survived... but could there be a few more out there besides the Ishidas? May Ryuuken know where they are. I only speculate this I admit because the idea of a reborn, powerful small band of Quincy (led possibly by Ryuuken) could be very intriguing.

I deem his resentment toward his father, Souken, may be that he renounced the quincy heritage to protect his family, and ina way, Souken was "disobeying" Ryuuken's decision by training Uryuu.

That could very well be, however, Ryuuken may have been angrier at Souken for his repeated contacting of Central 46 and thus keeping the Shinigami in such close proximity to his family, namely Uryuu. If Ryuuken knew Central 46 was terrified of any alliance with the Quincy that could someday lead to interbreeding or power-mixing, Ryuuken would want himself (and his son) far away from the Shinigami's affairs as possible... yet Souken kept approaching them. In Ryuuken's mind, endangering not only himself, but Uryuu as well. When Souken was finally killed, Ryuuken may have been more relieved than anything (even if it was his own father, Ryuuken may have known it would have taken death to make Souken stop trying to make peace with the Shinigami, ending the centuries old feud).

they would have known her, more importantly...i am convinced Isshin's surname is a disguised one

I think it would have to be, with Ichigo's (Karin's and also someday Yuzu's) high reiatsu... Ichigo coming into contact with Soul Society one day was probably an inevitability to him, thus the importance of changing his name. Especially with someone as powerful as he obviously is and/or if he was indeed a Captain... his real name is probably one that would be instantly recognized amongst Soul Society. Maybe even amongst the younger Shinigami. Something of legend, like Yoruichi.

From:

mrs-urahara.livejournal.com

"Ryuuken may have kept himself and his son safe by proving to Central 46 his total agreement in segregation from their affairs. He also likely vowed he'd keep his son from mingling with the Shinigami also.... thus protecting his family (and explaining Ryuuken's stipulation in training Uryuu. Ryuuken is using the training as blackmail to keep Uryuu away from his newfound - Shinigami - friends)."
--huh. that IS interesting and a highly probable situation..though, it seems that Ryuuken's blackmailing Ishida delves into something much deeper. It felt to me as if there IS some sort of hatred for the shinigami for some reason..which could play into that Masaki love triangle we have been speculating.

"Central 46 rejected him every time. Until Mayuri finally got to him silencing him forever"
---i forgot about that..i think Ishida mentions that in the 6th volume...wait....*runs to check*..yup. 6th volume, p60-63. Souken did plead to the SHinigami to see if there was a way they could band forces, but they didn't listen. I guess he was MORE Of a threat than all the quincies combined.
heh-heh. whihc makes me think of Tousen, perhaps Aizen "opened" tousen's eyes and showed him that Soul Society was truly not a just and equitable organization, but did things according to their own law. AND, come to think of it...Utikake brings this up to Yamaji, too. When Utikake and SHunsui see that Soul Society's laws have to be changed. He challenged Yamaji by telling him that he taught Utikake and SHunsui to trust their heart and to live according to their own truths...hmmm...so, i am thinking maybe this last arc will bring closure to this "inner" turmoil.
not just through the characters, but the overacrhing themes themselves.

"Ryuuken would want himself (and his son) far away from the Shinigami's affairs as possible... yet Souken kept approaching them. In Ryuuken's mind, endangering not only himself, but Uryuu as well. When Souken was finally killed, Ryuuken may have been more relieved than anything (even if it was his own father, Ryuuken may have known it would have taken death to make Souken stop trying to make peace with the Shinigami, ending the centuries old feud)."

EXCELLENT point!

From:

eido.livejournal.com

though, it seems that Ryuuken's blackmailing Ishida delves into something much deeper.

I don't doubt it, but a little blackmail (to keep him from the Shinigami... Shinigami who felt threatened by the Quincy, per these theories) never hurt either.

whihc makes me think of Tousen, perhaps Aizen "opened" tousen's eyes and showed him that Soul Society was truly not a just and equitable organization, but did things according to their own law.

That's what I'm thinking as well, regardless if our theories actually come to play in the anime/manga... A man like Tousen would probably want a very good reason to betray the organization he'd sworn loyalty too and with "less bloodshed" (that seems to be his big thing, avoiding needless deaths).

Re: Quincy Justice

From:

mrs-urahara.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-03-25 04:28 pm (UTC) - Expand

From:

eido.livejournal.com

I don't think Masaki was an Ishida...but she's definitely something! If anything food for our intellectual musings and hopefully a future plot/character arc resolution. ^___^

You know, this is even getting more lost in speculation, but... I was wondering how old Isshin might actually be. Shinigami seem to live much, much longer and age much more slowly than humans. If Isshin was a Captain when he left Soul Society, he is very possibly quite old. Maybe as old or older than Ukitake or Shunsui. Yamaji would likely know him. If Isshin was old enough... I wonder if he could have taken part in the Quincy Genocide of 200 years ago. Maybe so horrified at what he was ordered to do, he secretly decided to save however many Quincy he could. Maybe some of those Quincy he saved were part of Masaki's lineage? 180 (give or take) years later, he runs into Masaki, descended from those Quincy he had saved (he recognizes a familiar reiatsu in her, even if Masaki herself has no powers as a Quincy / has no idea what she is. Her family likely long ago given up the Quincy arts for safety reasons). Isshin falls in love with her and decides to marry her, despite the risk. However, as to protect her from the eyes of Soul Society (knowing what Central 46 would do if they found out what she was), he fakes his death, gets one of those untraceable gigai from Urahara and hides in the human world with his beautiful new (secret Quincy-descended) wife.

It also could be - either due to his own knowledge or Urahara's research - Isshin knows exactly what his children could be (natural Hogyoku?)... yet also knows that with the power Ichigo has lying inside of him and when that power comes to total fruition, Soul Society will be no match for son (or his daughters). This Aizen situation, on the other hand? That may not be something Isshin foresaw... but there's nothing he can do about it now but deal with it.

From:

From:

eido.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-03-27 10:53 pm (UTC) - Expand

From:

mrs-urahara.livejournal.com

okay so here is the rest of it. . . dang 4300 character limit. heehee

so...then...where does the hollow aspect of Ichigo come from? is it because the union of quincy/shinigami creates perhaps a kind of spiritual genius...and there is a fineline btw genius and insanity? or is it soo much that it upsets some sort of spiritual equilibrium? I think those otherkids..shoot what are they called (lisa & the rest of them)..will somehow reveal more clues as to how one is born as hollow hybrid.

ooo.....eido!! this is getting soooo exciting!!

From:

mrs-urahara.livejournal.com

"Isshin's real name is probably one that would be instantly recognized amongst Soul Society. Maybe even amongst the younger Shinigami. Something of legend, like Yoruichi."
---yeh, that's what I am thinking. And now, with this new character book out. there is that suspicion that Ichigo may be a prince. Which,(i also posted this in LJ) may explain why we only know 3 of the 4 noble houses in SOul Society:
1. shiba
2. YOruichi's
3. Kuchiki

There is no mention of the 4th. THis could mean that either Isshin OR even Masaki may have belonged to this house. it would be interesting to see how it all fans out.

From:

eido.livejournal.com

And now, with this new character book out. there is that suspicion that Ichigo may be a prince.

Great. Wandering slightly o/t, but I'd been rewatching the Bound eps and that male Bound (the one who has the snake) mentioned being nobility. The Bound recognize themselves as royalty/nobility of some kind or was that just that male Bound being extremely arrogant? If the Bound have some sort of actual nobility... and Ishida could be part Bound? Ichigo may not be the only one with possible noble ties.

Which,(i also posted this in LJ) may explain why we only know 3 of the 4 noble houses in SOul Society:
1. shiba
2. YOruichi's
3. Kuchiki

Wasn't Ukitake one of the possible noble houses? Although I have not a clue where I heard that. Ukitake did apparently have possession of that Shihouin seal (the one that stopped the Soukyuko). Either he's somehow connected to the Shihouin himself or Yoruichi (or one of her relatives) gave the seal to him for safekeeping.

There is no mention of the 4th. THis could mean that either Isshin OR even Masaki may have belonged to this house. it would be interesting to see how it all fans out.

Indeed. In the manga, Anti-Ichigo keeps calling Ichi "King"... because he's the "king" of the parallel world (aka, Zangetsu's domain), or so Anti-Ichi says. Interesting that. There are also references to Richard III in the most recent manga... or so I hear. I haven't read it yet myself.

From:

mrs-urahara.livejournal.com

"Although I have not a clue where I heard that. Ukitake did apparently have possession of that Shihouin seal (the one that stopped the Soukyuko). Either he's somehow connected to the Shihouin himself or Yoruichi (or one of her relatives) gave the seal to him for safekeeping."

--i agree, I think Smouldering Utikake is either part of that noble house (though, when he saw Yoruichi, it seemed more like they were comrades rather than some kind of kin) or Yoruichi gave it to him..or something like that. Though, i am more apt to think the latter. Yoruichi definitely has an admiration and respect for Utikake. She comes to "rescue" his subordinates from SaiFong, not to mention when Ichigo worries about Hanataro and Gnju, she assures Ichigo that Utikake would never see harm come to them. so...there is something there.

"Anti-Ichigo keeps calling Ichi "King"... because he's the "king" of the parallel world (aka, Zangetsu's domain), or so Anti-Ichi says. Interesting that. There are also references to Richard III "
---*gasps* reference to RichardIII?? I wonder if kubo really reads Shakespeare. be interesting to find out. As far as the anti-ichi calling him "king"..it could be double meaning. THough, i, too am more apt to think it has to do with being King of his "inner world". INterestingly enough, Anti-ichi told Zangetsu to train him well, for that world would belong to ANti-Ichi someday.
hmmm....