new fandom + the quincy key

[retro_eidas]

Just when I can't possibly be barraged with yet another fandom... another comes along of course. Within a few months, "Firefly" infected me like the plague. Then SGA came along. The newest edition to obsessive-compulsive speculating insanity? Bleach. For the non-otaku and/or minus a DLing fetish, you might not be familiar with this slice of fanon and thus this entry will mean absolutely nothing. However, it's the current hot item in anime... and my soul is all but it's bitch at the moment.

Also special thanks to new friends _debbiechan_ and mrs_urahara that propagate the :cough:hot Quincy:cough: speculating madness. Since I can't seem to join a fandom without being able to nerdily speculate about it ad infinitum, I'm not sure these poor folks realize what they've gotten themselves into. If either of you bother to read this, I apologize. A lot of it will be retread from bits of our "Significant Filler" discussion over at soul_society.

"The person who will protect this era... A Quincy is this key person." (not verbatim)
Oh the ridiculous amount of questions that statement has made for me... but it makes the sad, sad fangirl tingly in more naughty parts than I'd care to admit.

What exactly did Yoshino mean by a Quincy being "the key to save this era"? How do the Bound know this piece of information? Sounds like the makings of an impending prophecy reveal to me. Ishida part of some massive Bound prophecy... or just a prophecy in general? Something not necessarily limited to the Bound? Ryuuken? Souken? The Quincy (at least prior their genocide)? Perhaps more importantly (and scarily), the Shinigami?

Entirely hypotheticaly speaking... if the (or some... I'd say, Aizen and probably some or all of deceased Central 46) of the Shinigami are aware of this speculated prophecy regarding the Quincy and if the nature of the prophecy were threatening/apocalyptic/universe-altering/etc etc enough... What kind of precautions might they have taken? We already know now what they're capable of regarding those damn obstinate Quincy, so stubborn and proud to the point of imbalancing and threatening the end of the world they had to be permanently removed from the equation (or so we're told)... could they be capable of much more? Taking a look at Aizen, Gin and Mayuri... or hell, even those with 'good' intentions as Tousen, Yamamoto, Hinamori, Urahara and Byakuya... I'm truthfully afraid of the full extent of things they're capable of (whether it's willfully or unintentionally... by duty, honor, curiosity, misplaced justice or manipulation). Whatever their intentions. Who watches the Watchmen, indeed.

Was Mayuri purely satisfying his own insatiably sick curiousity regarding all his (apparently, mass amounts of) Quincy experiments? Or was there something more to it than that? Was he also going by orders? Orders from whom?

Was the Quincy Extermination of 200 years ago really unavoidable? Furthermore, if the extermination was such a "hard" decision as Rukia was told (via Urahara presumedly)... why or how did Mayuri get access to desecrate so many (I believe the number ranged around 1600+) Quincy for the sake of his experiments? Was he just that sly he could abscond with that many souls and go unnoticed? He doesn't seem to take much tact in keeping the Quincy experiments a secret if they're supposed to be secret (hell, he apparently carried around a memento on his person of at least one of the his favorite test subjects... Uryuu's grandfather/sensei, Souken) and he was talking about said experiments openly in Soul Society. Cpt. Kyouraku's departing comments to him in ep71 would also make me lean towards Mayuri's hobbies not necessarily secrets (and what does Kyouraku and possibly the other Shinigami know exactly about those hobbies?). I do unfortunately find it hard to believe the Shinigami didn't have some general idea what was happening to those Quincy. If Ryuuken has any kind of fuel in reigniting Uryuu's hatred of the Death Gods, this probably would be his coup de grace.

In regards to the above paragraph... one could speculate every action Ryuuken has taken was in part of some greater purpose, one that he believes (as did Souken?) is destined for Uryuu.

What exactly did Urahara do that was so bad that led to his exile from Soul Society? Particularly considering some of Mengele-taicho's hobbies (and he isn't only still partaking in said hobbies, but is the current 12th Division Captain. The frickin' promoted him. Jesus). What did he do that was so much worse than what Mayuri has done/is doing? Sure the Hogyoku could be bad enough. However... I do wonder if Mayuri has friends in very high places. He may not have ascended into HellHeaven a la Aizen, but another compadre perhaps?

I'm also wondering if Urahara's exile was so involuntary as it sounds. The word "exile" tends to exclaim 'involuntary', of course and I don't doubt it was completely serious and all forcible on the part of Shinigami's ruling body ... but I can't help but wonder just a little 'self-imposed' might factor in as well? Ditto Tessai (who I'd bet anything was Urahara's koutaicho), Yoriuchi and Isshin. I mean to say, Urahara might not have completely regretted leaving. Urahara, possibly Tessai, Yoriuchi and Isshin... all were in *high* positions of power. Until they were just... not anymore. Could it be they may have learned some very dirty and very ugly secrets about SS and wanted to leave (in utter moral disagreement and possibly in fear of their lives. Loose lips sink hellheaven-bound ships, after all)? Yoruichi took it all a step further and was apparently all but *dead* to the Shinigami for a CENTURY. Since I don't follow the manga as closely as I probably should... I'd guess Isshin also possibly faked his death (my guess? Kenpachi believes he'd killed him. Isshin just screams former 11th Division taicho to me).

And on an entirely unrelated venue... what the hell is Cpt. Komamura? Unfortunate recipient of a high level demon spell gone bad? Youkai? Possibly more likely, a hanyou (he seems to have a similar sort of shame/angst as young Inuyasha did. Consequence of a taboo youkai/human union... and made to feel that way most of his life, up until meeting Commander Yamamoto and Tousen)?

Comments

Re: paragraph 3

[mrs-urahara.livejournal.com]

"Maybe the Hogyoku had to be inside her, because it had to (or would) be Rukia who met Ichigo and thus changed (or, perhaps more accurately, awakened) him. And, since he's the protagonist he's likely the world's only salvation"
---this is where i think the Isshin/Urahara relationship comes into question and hopefully future revelation in the manga. I think Urahara and Isshin KNEW of Ichigo's impeding gifts. If, Isshin, knew of it, and had this relationship with Urahara..i think he would want his son to be trained in the best possible way. I reall think Isshin KNEW about it all along. Especially, how he "conveniently" appears as Ichigo is ready to leave for "vacation" and Isshin gives him his mum's amulet. Which opens up a WHOLE other can of beans. Isshin said that Masaki gave the amulet to him, as protection and good luck. Was this given to him when he was a shinigami? Maskai used it to protect Isshin? Does this mean masaki KNEW who Isshin was? or was it more for, perhaps, his role as a doctor? I know there was a thread about Isshin/Urahara and Ichigo's training/role in the whole Hyougoku picture.
also, why Rukia? is it because she was stationed in Kurakara town? thereby being able to be close to ichigo? and, isshin seems to have been conveniently gone when the hollow attacks his family. Part of Urahara's plan and deal with Isshin? Maybe, seeing what happened to Masaki, if she really had "supernatural" powers awaken, and the Fisher took her, before Isshin could really act. Maybe, he felt compelled to "hand over' Ichigo to Urahara, realising that his son was awakening to his inherent powers. And, seeing as Isshin led a secret life, he could not be the one to initiate his son. I always found it a strange that Isshin had this obsession with always challenging his son, fighting him, testing him to make sure he is strong. (also just provides for GREAT humor in the manga..but, i think there are other motives to that). I felt this "ohhhh" come about when I saw Isshin as a shinigami. All of sudden, the first half of the manga regarding isshin/ichigo was making sense.
that kubo....BRILLIANT!

"Then again... Ganju and Kukaku made no mention of Ichi's likeness to Kaien either)."
---that did bother me too. I mean, how do Utikake and Byakuya know and the entire shiba clan can't see the similarities. Par to f me thinks that Kubo did it as a plot device. If, early on, when Ganji and Kuukaku meet Ichigo and are startled by the fact that he looks like Kaien..we'd be led onto the whole backstory earlier than Kubo would have probably liked to neh? he's got to give us a drip of the elixir so we come back for more. heh-heh

"I don't know, it almost seems Kubo infected Rukia and the Shiba clan with conventient bouts of Lois Lane syndrome... and Ichi's orange hair functions as Clark's magic glasses."
---sooo true!!!

Re: paragraph 3

[eido.livejournal.com]

this is where i think the Isshin/Urahara relationship comes into question and hopefully future revelation in the manga. I think Urahara and Isshin KNEW of Ichigo's impeding gifts.

Moreso if there is anything to my insanity above and Masaki was indeed a Quincy (or had Quincy blood in her), there would be little doubt about the specialness of the Kurosaki children.

Furthermore, since Urahara probably would be the chief expert on the relations between Shinigami and Hollow (would know the exact nature of the relationship, if there is one, and how they interact with each other, etc etc)... if there is some secret means in unleashing some inner-Hollow/Demon in all Shinigami, the Quincy could be some vital key to that. Which could be yet another alterior motive - if there were any - for the Quincy extermination 200 years ago. Shinigami + Quincy = Some cataclysmic event... possibly something the Shinigami feared above all things (due to the prophecies of some Cassandra soothsayer type or their own paranoias in the combination of two such powerful beings). Due (in theory) to Isshin marrying and procreating with a secret Quincy... Urahara may have either let Isshin in on his Hogyoku studies and what that could mean for his children.... or Urahara didn't let Isshin in on his studies and has kept a close eye on the Kurosaki kids due to those studies (Urahara may be afraid to tell Isshin the exact nature of Ichigo's, Karin's and Yuzu's potential). Isshin's view of the relationship with Urahara could be little more than both of them being former Shinigami and Isshin just presuming his kids would be strong due to their parents (Isshin might not realize, however, how important his children could be... but Urahara might).

i think he would want his son to be trained in the best possible way. I reall think Isshin KNEW about it all along.

That's definitely possible too. Isshin's eccentric, bombastic nature... he might not care at all what his children are or may not consider it something to be afraid of if there is something very specifically special about them Urahara informed him of, but still would want his kids looked after. Especially if something happened to him. Although I could perhaps understand Urahara's motives if he did know something frightening or extreme about Ichigo, Karin or Yuzu but kept it secret, even (or especially) from Isshin... again, Urahara afraid of how Isshin might react or might not understand if he found out.

Isshin gives him his mum's amulet. Which opens up a WHOLE other can of beans. Isshin said that Masaki gave the amulet to him, as protection and good luck.

Which if - again, big IF - Masaki was a Quincy or related to them... the amulet could have been Quincy. Damn Ishida for apparently not seeing it (interesting we never saw the amulet again after Isshin gave it to his son... does Ichigo still have it? I'm guessing he might, which means Uryuu could see it yet). The cat might have been let out of the bag right there in Soul Society ... which could have been the very reason Isshin gave the amulet to Ichigo... not only as a good luck charm, but possibly so Ishida Uryuu might see it (Isshin knowing a Quincy - specifically, an Ishida - was tagging along).

also, why Rukia? is it because she was stationed in Kurakara town?

That might also lead to the question of who stationed her there and why. Aizen or a more benevolent puppetmaster? I probably wouldn't be surprised there's been someone or even a group behind the scenes pulling all the strings... with the Shinigami, the Quincy and whatever other major faction involved in this show. All pushing things to a specific head. Hell, Aizen could even be only be just another puppet in the grand scheme of things depending on how wide the manipulation or coercion stretches.

dissecting delights part 1

[mrs-urahara.livejournal.com]

So my brain does not go on overload here...as if already hasn't ..but this is just TOOOO good a discussion to pass up...

"Shinigami + Quincy = Some cataclysmic event... possibly something the Shinigami feared above all things (due to the prophecies of some Cassandra soothsayer type or their own paranoias in the combination of two such powerful beings). Due (in theory) to Isshin marrying and procreating with a secret Quincy"

--- I GET IT NOW. I could not quite understand where you were going with Masaki as a quincy. I thought "possible...but how?" now you tell me! thank you!! I get it. there COULD be an alterior motive to the anihilation of quincies...AND would also explain perhaps Mayuris experimentation with the Quincies too. If the union of quincy and shinigami was a catalyst to being a hybrid hollow...it would explain the extermination. AND, maybe, it was during this time that Maskai went into hiding, as did Ryuuken. BUT, here is where it does not match up..and throws me for a total loop...RUkia said that the QUincy were exterminated 200 yrs ago. Now, if they exterminated ALL the quincies, would this not mean that Uryuu's grandfather was at least 200yrs old? OR, rather, like the Jews during WW2, some went into hiding and were able to survive by keeping off the radar...but, then that would assume that there are more secret quincies out there.

okay, so if we go with the prospect that a few went into hiding, say one was the Ishida clan and another was Masaki's clan. And, one totally hid their powers (masaki's group) and the other continued to teach their children their history (Ishida clan), but as the generation of Ishida grew on, only Uryuu's grandfather kept up the teachings.

so then, in walks Masaki...completely CLUELESS to the fact she has these latent quincy powers and Isshin steps into her life. Now, he, being a shinigami probably sensed something different about this girl. NOw, let's say that at the time..RYuuken had not resolved to put his QUincy past aside and meets the beautiful Masaki and senses her quincy powers too.

I am figuring, if they both knew about it..they both may have felt some duty in protecting/hiding her from the shinigami and hollows alike. Now, I am figuring that URyuuken may have felt that he had a better chance with the hot mamma masaki, seeing they had this QUincy tie (even though she is not aware of it). But, my bet is that Isshin was COMPLETELY enamoured of Masaki, and she was intrigued by him, but I deem Ryuuken's intellectual and "self-sacrificing" nature may have her in his favour> mY guess is that Isshin's playful and carefree nature won over the demure and gentle maiden's heart.

So...yeh..there's more. This would inevitably cause bad blood for Ryuujen and for him to renounce his quincy powers. AND< INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH...MAYBE.....MAYBE...this is why Uryuu always remembers his mother's sadness masked in her smile. Perhaps she knew that Ryuuken never truly loved her. hmmmm...

now, Isshin & masaki marry. Masaki is pregnant with Ichigo. Perhaps, it is when Ichigo is born that Isshin notices something different and takes counsel with Urahara. They decide to "let sleeping dogs lie". So, it goes unsaid and hidden until Masaki's death, and Isshin sees that Ichigo's powers are growing and something needs to be done, perhaps? so, maybe Isshin and Urahara keep close tabs on him until Rukia appears and wakes the "sleeping dog" in Ichigo.

gah!! where am i going with this? who knows. It's all stream of consciousness. Sounds more like a fanfic than speculation, neh? heehee.

The Quincy Conspiracy

[eido.livejournal.com]

I could not quite understand where you were going with Masaki as a quincy. I thought "possible...but how?" now you tell me! thank you!! I get it. there COULD be an alterior motive to the anihilation of quincies...AND would also explain perhaps Mayuris experimentation with the Quincies too. If the union of quincy and shinigami was a catalyst to being a hybrid hollow...it would explain the extermination.

Bingo. ;)

BUT, here is where it does not match up..and throws me for a total loop...RUkia said that the QUincy were exterminated 200 yrs ago. Now, if they exterminated ALL the quincies, would this not mean that Uryuu's grandfather was at least 200yrs old? OR, rather, like the Jews during WW2, some went into hiding

My opinion? I think it was very much like the Jews of WWII (and those who went into hiding). Either they got as far away as they could somehow from Soul Society by their own means, disassociated themselves from other Quincy (converted or vowed to renounce the Quincy ways) OR some of them were protected. Either by rogue Shinigami who smuggled them away some place safe or some other magical/supernatural force(s) who might have taken sympathy on them or were offered some compensation for aide (Bound? Vaizard? Friendly Youkai? Gods? Considering how many options there are in Japanese myth & folklore - and it's various incarnations in popular anime - for Kubo-san? The possibilities are endless).

then that would assume that there are more secret quincies out there.

The Ishidas, maybe Masaki's family (if she wasn't an Ishida)... Chad's, Inoue's, Arasawa's or Keigo's parents/family too perhaps?

the generation of Ishida grew on, only Uryuu's grandfather kept up the teachings.

That could very well be. I always thought it was kind of strange how the Ishidas managed to retain their powers and survive this long. I believe Uryuu mentions the Shinigami kept a close eye on his grandfather all his life (thus why Uryuu was so angry when the Shinigami didn't respond quickly when Souken was being attacked by Hollows since they were monitoring him. We discover later Mayuri delayed the Shinigami on purpose. It would make sense he was the one monitoring the remaining known Quincy, being head of the 12th Division and all).

my bet is that Isshin was COMPLETELY enamoured of Masaki, and she was intrigued by him

And if Masaki were clueless to her abilities, she also may naturally know nothing about the long-time anomosity between Shinigami and Quincy. She'd know nothing of her own history. Although I suppose Ryuuken isn't as big a bastard as he may seem if he didn't just flat-out tell her what she was and why she shouldn't be with the likes of Kurosaki Isshin. Then again, if he did tell her... that didn't seem to stop her from being with Isshin anyway. Heh.

mY guess is that Isshin's playful and carefree nature won over the demure and gentle maiden's heart.

Which likely burned Ryuuken. Which likely only served to accentuate any hatred he might have already had of the Shinigami.

So...yeh..there's more. This would inevitably cause bad blood for Ryuujen and for him to renounce his quincy powers.

Or give him more reason to get stronger and eventually seek vengeance... but granted, definitely not only for the Masaki thing.

MAYBE this is why Uryuu always remembers his mother's sadness masked in her smile. Perhaps she knew that Ryuuken never truly loved her. hmmmm...

And if Ryuuken still loved Masaki, even now, that would make him hate Isshin (and his spawn) all the more. Isshin failed to protect her. What's more, she died protecting Isshin's bastard son who recklessly charged the Grand Fisher not realizing what it was. However, now Ryuuken might be using Uryuu as a tool to help seek vengeance not only against Isshin and his family, but all the Shinigami... possibly due to that (speculated) Quincy Key prophecy. Ryuuken might be absolutely convinced it's Uryuu that's the key ... but OH how it would burn him yet again if it turned out to be one of the Kurosakis... in my theories, Yuzu.

Re: The Quincy Conspiracy

[mrs-urahara.livejournal.com]

"The Ishidas, maybe Masaki's family (if she wasn't an Ishida)... Chad's, Inoue's, Arasawa's or Keigo's parents/family too perhaps?"
--i wonder if Kubo-san is really going to explain where everyone's powers are stemming. If you take it that every human being DOES have latent spiritual powers, waiting to be awakened (which, when you think about the ideology of alot of the spiritual teachings. it is about awakening one's soul, spiritual enlightment, perhaps?). He obviously shows us that both Ishida and Ichigo inhereted their abilities..but what about the others? From Chad & Inoue's awakening, it seems it came from a desire to protect others (for inoue--loved ones and for Chad--to use his strength to help those "weaker")

Although I suppose Ryuuken isn't as big a bastard as he may seem if he didn't just flat-out tell her what she was and why she shouldn't be with the likes of Kurosaki Isshin. Then again, if he did tell her... that didn't seem to stop her from being with Isshin anyway. Heh
--i would not be surprised if it were the latter, something tells me Masaki has spirit and fire in her that is unrivaled. (which would explain the fire in the Kurosaki kids...though, they also got that in part from the renegade smexy shinigami pappa.)

Which likely burned Ryuuken. Which likely only served to accentuate any hatred he might have already had of the Shinigami
--don't you KNOW it! ;P

And if Ryuuken still loved Masaki, even now, that would make him hate Isshin (and his spawn) all the more. Isshin failed to protect her. What's more, she died protecting Isshin's bastard son who recklessly charged the Grand Fisher not realizing what it was. However, now Ryuuken might be using Uryuu as a tool to help seek vengeance not only against Isshin and his family, but all the Shinigami
---ooooooo...could you imagine?? How HOT That would be? yummmm that is an enticing storyline.

"but OH how it would burn him yet again if it turned out to be one of the Kurosakis... in my theories, Yuzu."
---would it ever!!

this also leads me to believe, that Orihime DOES play a major role, as Kubo-san stated. I keep wondering if our little orihime may end up playing out the same "triangle" with ishida and Ichigo. I mean, if Orihime admits that she "loves" Kurosaki, and Ishida falls for Orihime. It may be an older story retold, but perhaps, with resolution and peace. My heart is set on Orihime and Ishida. I really want Renji and Rukia to end up together, but I have a feeling it will be rukia and Ichigo. Though, with the intro Of Lisa...oooo, i'd love ichigo and Lisa to rumble/tumble. ;P

Re: The Quincy Conspiracy

[eido.livejournal.com]

He obviously shows us that both Ishida and Ichigo inhereted their abilities

For me, it's a toss-up. The possibility is open for mystery in Chad's and Inoue's lineage (in that both their parents were conveniently out of the picture early in life)... or not. They could just be regular humans whose average spirit power was drastically altered due to the proximity to godlike-powered Ichigo... or they have a little (rogue) Shinigami, Quincy, Bound, etc etc somewhere deep inside of them. Kubo could go anywhere yet.

this also leads me to believe, that Orihime DOES play a major role, as Kubo-san stated. I keep wondering if our little orihime may end up playing out the same "triangle" with ishida and Ichigo.

That could be a definite possibility. Ichigo is attached to Rukia (and, from what I can tell, only seems to have platonic/filial feelings for Orihime. Not so different from Chad or perhaps one of his sisters), but Orihime is infatuated with him... and Ishida could easily reveal he has feelings for Orihime (which would prove a fountain of angst for him considering the promise he made his father about staying away from the Shinigami. Inoue isn't Shinigami, but she's always hounding around Ichigo and he's always with Rukia & the other Shin). It's a potential mess waiting to happen. On a side note, rereading the recent chapters of the manga... Kubo-san does seem like he could be saving Ishida for something big, probably (or hopefully!) soon. Taking him out of the action as he has and introducing his daddy in such a drastic way (paralleled with the introduction of Isshin-the-Shinigami)? Again, it looks like Kubo is going back to contrasting Ishida and Ichigo... maybe for a very specific way.

My heart is set on Orihime and Ishida.

heee Me too. So many things about both compliment one another in such interesting ways.... and they're crazy cute. So adorkable. So much to love! I really do hope this is the way Kubo goes.

I really want Renji and Rukia to end up together, but I have a feeling it will be rukia and Ichigo.

I can't really complain about that. I like Renji/Rukia, but my support is going to have to go to Ichi/Ruki. Love those two... besides, Renji is FOR ME DAMN IT!!! It's just wrong... Kubo drawing a character where I'm constantly wondering if tattoos in Soul Society come flavored. WRONG!

Re: The Quincy Conspiracy

[mrs-urahara.livejournal.com]

"Ichigo is attached to Rukia (and, from what I can tell, only seems to have platonic/filial feelings for Orihime. Not so different from Chad or perhaps one of his sisters), but Orihime is infatuated with him."
--Yeh, you are right about the way Ichigo feels toward Orihime. And, it was a "jealousy" toward Rukia that made Orihime realise she loves Ichigo. She saw the way Ichigo was utterly concerned with Rukia after she fought with the arrancar and caused her to be brutally wounded.
When Kubo said Orihime would be important... .you can't but help wonder what his plan is. Orihime admits her jealousy of Ichigo..i am wondering, if her sweet selflessness will end up being the catalyst for Ichigo or Rukia to confront how they REALLY feel? She did it with rukia when she thought Ishida was in love with Rukia (making rukia promise to wear the dress) . . .

'Kubo-san does seem like he could be saving Ishida for something big, probably (or hopefully!) soon. Taking him out of the action as he has and introducing his daddy in such a drastic way (paralleled with the introduction of Isshin-the-Shinigami)? Again, it looks like Kubo is going back to contrasting Ishida and Ichigo... maybe for a very specific way."
--definitely. i think the way they both teamed up to beat the hollows when they first met, will somehow happen on a grander scale..though, this arc seems like it will follow the SS arc..with a battle-of-the-all-stars kind of feel to it, neh? AND, will use it renconcile character arcs,neh?

--i can see something between Rangiku & gin..perhaps with him sacrificing his life to protect or save her, thus revealing to her (and us) how he feels...and perhaps why he aligned with AIzne in the first place. and, I also wonder about Yoruichi and Kisuke. She tells Kisuke that neither them are going to "die a peaceful death"..to which Kisuke reminds her, that is inevitable... i was thinking abou that one....perhaps they will die together? it could be a foreshadow of things to come?

"(paralleled with the introduction of Isshin-the-Shinigami"
---I am AALLLLLL for more Hot-pappa Isshin as SHinigami SMex god.BRING IT ON! I mean, if I were masaki, and saw him in his shinigami attire..i'd . . .i'd..... *smaks lips*

Re: The Quincy Conspiracy

[eido.livejournal.com]

Yeh, you are right about the way Ichigo feels toward Orihime.

Regardless what happens between them, I'm really hard-pressed seeing that ever change. It's just really hard for me to see Ichigo ever returning Orihime's affection in the way she desperately wants him to, even if they do start dating.

When Kubo said Orihime would be important... .you can't but help wonder what his plan is.

I admit I'm somewhat worried about the direction Kubo may go. Considering how the story was in the original Bleach pilot? However, I'd like to think - if any Ichigo/Orihime relationship does start (yuck!) - Kubo will make it clear Ichigo's heart is still elsewhere ... and probably always will be. Regardless of how sweet Orihime is and how much he cares for her (as a friend/sister). I'd also hope, since Kubo likes to keep his relationships complicated, Orihime - one of these future chapters - starts returning *some* kind of romantic-leaning feelings for at least one other person besides Ichigo. She's so singularly obsessed with him, it gets rather tiring and dull to me... it marginalizes her as a character imo. I'm cheering for that other person to be Ishida (and Orihime still upset with these newfound feelings, believing Ishida also has feelings for Rukia just like Ichigo ... when Ishi does not, but may in fact have real romantic feelings for her, but Ishi won't reveal those feeilngs either due to Orihime's obvious infatuation / relationship with Ichigo and/or his father's demands Ishi stay away from the Shinigami), but who knows what Kubo will do.

I also wonder about Yoruichi and Kisuke.

I'm pretty convinced those two are goners. Maybe not soon, but I do think they're two that will die in this series at some point. They're kind of like the surrogate father and mother of Ichigo and friends ... I could see them sacrificing themselves for their children one of these days.

oh..Orihime

[mrs-urahara.livejournal.com]

"She's so singularly obsessed with him, it gets rather tiring and dull to me... it marginalizes her as a character imo."
--agreed! Understated romantic feelings are much more enticing than overstaeted, redundant and implicit ones.

"I'm cheering for that other person to be Ishida (and Orihime still upset with these newfound feelings, believing Ishida also has feelings for Rukia just like Ichigo ... when Ishi does not, but may in fact have real romantic feelings for her, but Ishi won't reveal those feeilngs either due to Orihime's obvious infatuation / relationship with Ichigo and/or his father's demands Ishi stay away from the Shinigami)"
--i think he kinda is setting that up . . She does obviously think that Ishida likes RUkia because he made her that dress. That would set a GREAT romantic and enticing end for their two characters. Perhaps, he saves her in a way that makes Orihime know how he feels, without directly coming out with it.
I always seem to find that most manga lves to keep you wriggling when it comes to the implied romance. BUT, if KUbo-san keeps up the great writing...their will be resolution with those implied romances, whether overtly or covertly. ^___^

on Yoruichi & Urahara:
"I'm pretty convinced those two are goners. Maybe not soon, but I do think they're two that will die in this series at some point. They're kind of like the surrogate father and mother of Ichigo and friends ... I could see them sacrificing themselves for their children one of these days."
--- i think when Yoruichi said that they may not die a peaceful death and Kisuke retorted that it's a given. . . I knew then. . .that those two were going to kick the bucket for some grand cause. And, it would be like those two to go out with a big bang (the same way they did in Soul SOciety)..than for them to live happily ever after.
Sometimes I wonder if it is Kisuke who will in the end bring down Aizen. since, it's HIS toy Aizen has...(now not saying that Ichigo is not going to have a hand in it..). this is how i see it..kisuke gives him the last to final blow, dies trying, Yoruichi comes in to take venegence on kisuke's death, then ichigo delivers the final blow....or something like that..
WHO KNOWS...i am just having fun making it all up. If kubo read this . . .he'd have a good chuckle on my behalf.

Re: The Quincy Conspiracy

[mrs-urahara.livejournal.com]

"and they're crazy cute. So adorkable."

---LUV it!!! "adorkable" that they are!

"It's just wrong... Kubo drawing a character where I'm constantly wondering if tattoos in Soul Society come flavored. WRONG!"
--I rememgber first coming to LJ, through a friend, and seeing their frontpage with the pic of Renji spreadeagle with his hair in braids and those f*kin tats on that INCREDIBLY cut bod of his..i was like "WTF?!?!?!". i asked my friend..(seeing I was only on chapter 3 in the US version...i think the manga was in like chapter 8 or 9)..who is that guy! when she told me, that's what made me go on an all-nighter reading the manga up-to-date and all the episodes. it was crazy! it took two days...non=stop. I went nuts! Still am! ;P

my only reason for hoping it WOULD be renji...only that i am always for the "underdog". I just don't think that Rukia, in the long run, would give up her life in soul society to be in the human world. Especially, really just starting her relationship with her brother and in a way, renji. THough, i love Rukia x Ichigo.. . . i gues i would just feel so sorry for Renji. he's a bit like Orihime, i guess. You know he loves Rukia, though unlike Orihime, he does not want to admit how he truly feels. be interesting to see how Kubo plays it all out.

on urahara's knowing & isshin cluelessness

[mrs-urahara.livejournal.com]

..."again, Urahara afraid of how Isshin might react or might not understand if he found out."

ahhh i seee. Isshin MAY have been clueless about the possibility of what would happen with a quincy/shinigami union. WHICH, urahara being the founder of the "reasearch" beureau in SS, he would KNOW the reasoning behind the genecide of quincies. Isshin, may have only know the "official" reason: to restore the balance of spiritual power. so then, perhaps, Isshin was not really concerned about it, until the hollows started coming back in town, until Rukia appeared. OR, maybe he sensed something different, and when he saw things coming to a head, that's when Urahara stepped in and offered his assistance to Isshin, with Urahara having his own motive (he knows Ichigo's potential and uses it to retrieve his Hyuogaku back from SS). he did the same with rukia, conveniently showing up to "help" her in the human world, having his own motive. Albeit, his motives are not bad...but he is a capricorn...heh-heh (no offense if you are one. but the men definitely seem to behave in the same way, at least--datea a couple--ANYHOO)

you are sooo onto something here!

Re: on urahara's knowing & isshin cluelessness

[eido.livejournal.com]

ahhh i seee. Isshin MAY have been clueless about the possibility of what would happen with a quincy/shinigami union.

I'd guess that IF it were big enough (and I'm guessing this whole situation IS indeed very, very big), even if he was crazy in love with Masaki, he might not have gone through with their relationship or at least not had kids. But, I suppose, if a prophecy (or prophecies) does exist... if it hadn't been Isshin/Masaki, it would have been another forbidden Shinigami/Quincy pair eventually.

WHICH, urahara being the founder of the "reasearch" beureau in SS, he would KNOW the reasoning behind the genecide of quincies.

And Urahara probably would be one of the very few who would know (maybe Yoruichi and Tessai know too) ... thanks to his research. Maybe Aizen (and through him, his subordinates) might know from snooping in Urahara's old records, but I doubt they know (otherwise the Ishidas would probably be dead). I think all the Quincy (also possibly Bound) information - along with everything on how to create a Hogyoku - was deleted by Urahara as not for the likes of Aizen to find it... and thus give someone like him reason to destroy the remaining Quincy, if the likes of Aizen wanted the Hogyoku only for themselves. Maybe Mayuri knows, but he doesn't seem quite as intelligent as Urahara, so I doubt him as well (I don't think he even began to touch the level of Urahara's experiments like the Hogyoku... although he might have tried, via the mass horrific Quincy experimentations). Mayuri might not even be aware there's a direct Quincy role to the Hogyoku creation at all ... he may have just been experimenting on Quincy knowing Urahara had some kind of interest in them but never figuring out what that interest was exactly.

I'd guess some in Central 46 might have probably known... not that that would matter now if absolutely none of them survived. Funny if Aizen had kept some of them alive, they might have eventually told him about the true nature of Hogyoku, the key to the Shinigami/Hollow connection (the Quincy) and how it's all tied to the Quincy extermination of 200 years ago... but alas, he slaughtered them all without mercy. Idiot.

Isshin, may have only know the "official" reason: to restore the balance of spiritual power.

Like, possibly, most of the Shinigami.

OR, maybe he sensed something different

Even if he sensed something different, he could have just passed it off due to his kids having Quincy blood. If he sought council with Urahara and Urahara - genius and former head of 12th Division - was not being wholly truthful and telling him not to worry about it... more reason why Isshin probably isn't as concerned as he probably should be.

(he knows Ichigo's potential and uses it to retrieve his Hyuogaku back from SS). he did the same with rukia, conveniently showing up to "help" her in the human world, having his own motive.

Which could count for Urahara's incredible luck again... turns out Ichigo and Rukia seem to be quite attached to each other. Ichigo was going to charge into Soul Society with Urahara's help or not.

Re: on urahara's knowing & isshin cluelessness

[mrs-urahara.livejournal.com]

even if he was crazy in love with Masaki, he might not have gone through with their relationship or at least not had kids.
---i think he still would have done it. Love makes us do the craziest things. It blinds us. ANd, i think he would have foregone everything that he was told in order to be with the woman he loves. I mean, i think about the beginning of the manga, where he has that poster dedicated to her. His love for masaki is just as strong as it was when she was alive. I think they had a love that was incomprehensible. maybe even moreso for Isshin than Masaki. *sigh* sooo romantic.

Maybe Mayuri knows, but he doesn't seem quite as intelligent as Urahara, so I doubt him as well (I don't think he even began to touch the level of Urahara's experiments like the Hogyoku
---TOTALLY. Mayuri PALES in comparison to Urahara. I would not doubt if even Aizen, to some degree, pales in comparison to him too. What really triggered that for me, was how Urahara was able to ward of the Arrancar better than the rest of the clan thwarting the respective arrancar in their battles. Also, the way isshin so easily discarded the Grand Fisher makes me wonder if he may have "keys" to unlock Ichigo's power. Seeing Ichigo does not know the real truth about his father, and most likely Masaki, it may awaken something inside him to be able to "save" and "protect" his friends, family, and the world from Aizen's control. just a thought.

Urahara - genius and former head of 12th Division - was not being wholly truthful and telling him not to worry about it... more reason why Isshin probably isn't as concerned as he probably should be.
---ahhh my Urahara he's a sly one. LURV it. ;p

Which could count for Urahara's incredible luck again... turns out Ichigo and Rukia seem to be quite attached to each other. Ichigo was going to charge into Soul Society with Urahara's help or not.
---how wonderfully convenient for smexy urahara, neh?

Re: on urahara's knowing & isshin cluelessness

[eido.livejournal.com]

i think he still would have done it. Love makes us do the craziest things. It blinds us.

You're probably right... considering how - reckless and kind of insane - Isshin seems to be? He probably would have chased Masaki, be damned the consequences. ;)

Also, the way isshin so easily discarded the Grand Fisher makes me wonder if he may have "keys" to unlock Ichigo's power.

I mentioned earlier I re-read the recent manga chapters... and I think I'm going to have to retract my spec about Isshin not knowing. Re-reading it, there definitely seemed to be some familiarity between Urahara and Isshin regarding the Arrancar. Isshin almost gave the impression he knew more about them than Urahara did. If there is something odd with Ichigo (and there definitely is), I think I'm going to have to say Urahara and Isshin probably are on the same page about it.

Re: on urahara's knowing & isshin cluelessness

[mrs-urahara.livejournal.com]

"You're probably right... considering how - reckless and kind of insane - Isshin seems to be? He probably would have chased Masaki, be damned the consequences."

--that's my smexy shinigami pappa for you. I think his reckless abandon and "adorkable" ways (love that word) has to do with perhaps not wanting his children to get any sort of suspicion about him having this secret past and also as a way to make up for the loss of having a mother. So, he becomes an over-parent with them? what really made me rethink why Isshin behaves as this was when he admitting to knowing WHAT Kon was and how Isshin played "dumb" the whole time. I started to think: maybe part of his crazy and rambunctious fatherly ways have to do with "playing dumb". ANd, he is a doctor, which made me think, that he is alot smarter than what he leads to be.

--i have to reread the recent chapters myself. I download them, read them, then throw them out...i don't have much space on my harddrive for them..need to buy more cds, then i'll just burn them so i can revist them later. I am busy downloading the past episodes, i have watched. I bought this CRAPPY version on ebay..to catch up with eps 45-now and the CD became corrupted after a couple runs. SO, i am direct downloading from bleachportal and will burn them to DVD.
it's really good to have the manga on hand (well, on cd, for now) because discussions like these always seem to need that "reference" book on hand AND, i find, opens up to more layers of the topic discussed.

"Isshin almost gave the impression he knew more about them than Urahara did. If there is something odd with Ichigo (and there definitely is), I think I'm going to have to say Urahara and Isshin probably are on the same page about it."
--yeh, from what i remember, it almost seems like he is on par with Urahara, not only with regards to information, but to his power as well. This is what makes me think he was a taicho..not a fukutaicho. You know Kubo-san is going to dish the whole delightful dirt on Isshin's past, thereby, my hopes, revealing Masaki and his relationship.
--I hope Kubo continues to keeps his writing tight and succinct and not end up like Takahashi with Inuyahsa, whom I deem, got caught up so much in milking that cash cow, the storyline SUFFERED! It was like C'MON!!! wrap it up already! I lost interest in that a LONG LONG TIME AGO.
I enjoy mangas/animes that run the marathon. they run it. they finish it. LIke Rurouni Kenshin, COwboy Bebop, and FMA. Some Mangaka's think it's more like a run/walk marathon: they start out running the first 12 miles adn get your adreline going, only to walk the rest, stopping to get a cup of water at EVERY dang spot its available. neh?
heh-heh ;P

Re: on urahara's knowing & isshin cluelessness

[mrs-urahara.livejournal.com]

"You're probably right... considering how - reckless and kind of insane - Isshin seems to be? He probably would have chased Masaki, be damned the consequences."

--that's my smexy shinigami pappa for you. I think his reckless abandon and "adorkable" ways (love that word) has to do with perhaps not wanting his children to get any sort of suspicion about him having this secret past and also as a way to make up for the loss of having a mother. So, he becomes an over-parent with them? what really made me rethink why Isshin behaves as this was when he admitting to knowing WHAT Kon was and how Isshin played "dumb" the whole time. I started to think: maybe part of his crazy and rambunctious fatherly ways have to do with "playing dumb". ANd, he is a doctor, which made me think, that he is alot smarter than what he leads to be.

--i have to reread the recent chapters myself. I download them, read them, then throw them out...i don't have much space on my harddrive for them..need to buy more cds, then i'll just burn them so i can revist them later. I am busy downloading the past episodes, i have watched. I bought this CRAPPY version on ebay..to catch up with eps 45-now and the CD became corrupted after a couple runs. SO, i am direct downloading from bleachportal and will burn them to DVD.
it's really good to have the manga on hand (well, on cd, for now) because discussions like these always seem to need that "reference" book on hand AND, i find, opens up to more layers of the topic discussed.

"Isshin almost gave the impression he knew more about them than Urahara did. If there is something odd with Ichigo (and there definitely is), I think I'm going to have to say Urahara and Isshin probably are on the same page about it."
--yeh, from what i remember, it almost seems like he is on par with Urahara, not only with regards to information, but to his power as well. This is what makes me think he was a taicho..not a fukutaicho. You know Kubo-san is going to dish the whole delightful dirt on Isshin's past, thereby, my hopes, revealing Masaki and his relationship.
--I hope Kubo continues to keeps his writing tight and succinct and not end up like Takahashi with Inuyahsa, whom I deem, got caught up so much in milking that cash cow, the storyline SUFFERED! It was like C'MON!!! wrap it up already! I lost interest in that a LONG LONG TIME AGO.
I enjoy mangas/animes that run the marathon. they run it. they finish it. LIke Rurouni Kenshin, COwboy Bebop, and FMA. Some Mangaka's think it's more like a run/walk marathon: they start out running the first 12 miles adn get your adreline going, only to walk the rest, stopping to get a cup of water at EVERY dang spot its available. neh?
heh-heh ;P

All about Eve...I mean, Aizen

[mrs-urahara.livejournal.com]

"Aizen could even be only be just another puppet in the grand scheme of things depending on how wide the manipulation or coercion stretches."
-- it;s true. he could be a small fry in the bigger pond. But, I am more apt to think that Kubo-san is making Aizen the ultimate meglomaniac. with no real hope for redemption. Now, Gin and TOusen okay..but him...no.

There could be other puppetmasters...i mean, how the hell is Aizen able to massacre all 47 memebers of the council? okay, he had Gin & Tousen to help, but he must had someone working on the inside to be able to get him through the doors. Hitsugaya and Matsu show how TIGHTLY protected, guarded, and hidden the council are.

In the end, i think it will be Aizen against the world. friggin hottie meglomaniac. He's soooo NAUGHTY it's beyond palatable . . . . not to mention UBER SMEXY!!

All about Eve...I mean, Aizen

[mrs-urahara.livejournal.com]

"Aizen could even be only be just another puppet in the grand scheme of things depending on how wide the manipulation or coercion stretches."
-- it;s true. he could be a small fry in the bigger pond. But, I am more apt to think that Kubo-san is making Aizen the ultimate meglomaniac. with no real hope for redemption. Now, Gin and TOusen okay..but him...no.

There could be other puppetmasters...i mean, how the hell is Aizen able to massacre all 47 memebers of the council? okay, he had Gin & Tousen to help, but he must had someone working on the inside to be able to get him through the doors. Hitsugaya and Matsu show how TIGHTLY protected, guarded, and hidden the council are.

In the end, i think it will be Aizen against the world. friggin hottie meglomaniac. He's soooo NAUGHTY it's beyond palatable . . . . not to mention UBER SMEXY!!

cont

[eido.livejournal.com]

isshin seems to have been conveniently gone when the hollow attacks his family. Part of Urahara's plan and deal with Isshin?

I might see that as a means of Urahara trying to force the powers out of Ichigo (or Karin or Yuzu)... maybe some perverse matchmaking between Ichi and Rukia too. He was all too conveniently right there that night, wasn't he? Offering Rukia a gigai... he needed to hide the Hogyoku, but there might have also been motive - due to Urahara knowing Ichigo's bloodline - for him to standby while Rukia inevitably gave Ichigo her Shinigami abilities (and thus, waking up his own abilities). Ironic Ichigo could be his own type of Hogyoku, while being forever bound to Rukia who - thanks to that gigai - also now has significant, soul-level, exposure to the Hogyoku. I have a hard time imagining Rukia hasn't been permanently changed now due to the double exposure of the Urahara Hogyoku and Ichigo's massive (particular) powers. The two of them would then definitely be two of a kind.... and Urahara may have realized that, realizing what he did to Rukia (and however Ichigo might have changed her by proximity to his power, something Ichigo seems to do with everyone). Urahara knew what he was doing to Rukia, but knowing or suspecting what Ichigo was... maybe he thought it would be easier to take since at least they'd have each other.

Maybe, seeing what happened to Masaki, if she really had "supernatural" powers awaken, and the Fisher took her, before Isshin could really act.

And my brain is starting to hurt with this overload... but if something happened to Masaki the Quincy that wasn't unlike what's happened to Uryuu (he's lost his Quincy powers, but they might have been taken away from Masaki... by Ryuuken maybe?), that would also explain why Masaki might have known exactly what the Grand Fisher was and why she was so desperate to protect Ichigo from it, but couldn't call on her Quincy powers to protect him (because she didn't have them anymore). Uryuu lost his Quincy abilities, but *still* has the ability to sense reiatsu... the same may have been true for Masaki. Ryuuken doing what he's doing now (training Uryuu who's lost his powers), may be his means of trying to clear his conscience of what he did to Masaki. Then again, Masaki may have asked Ryuuken to somehow remove her Quincy abilities or take them in exchange for something (freedom from the Quincy/Ishida responsabilities maybe?), but even if that were the case, Ryuuken could still feel guilty about what happened... leaving Masaki completely unprotected (apart from her former Shinigami husband). He all but killed Masaki just as much as the Grand Fisher did.

rudiments of rukia

[mrs-urahara.livejournal.com]

realizing what he did to Rukia (and however Ichigo might have changed her by proximity to his power, something Ichigo seems to do with everyone). Urahara knew what he was doing to Rukia, but knowing or suspecting what Ichigo was... maybe he thought it would be easier to take since at least they'd have each other

hmmm.... i also wonder if he chose Rukia knowing that she was a KUCHIKI. Perhaps, he thought if he placed it in a "noble" it would be the safest place to hide it. Seeing that the Noble clans tend to be "immune" and have special "amensty" to things, neh? AND, Aizen said that he KNEW that Urahara was going to use Rukia as his hiding spot, and that's why she immediately sentenced her. Seeing that Urahara was watching and encouraging ichigo's shinigami powers, and Urahara being banned form Soul SOciety, Ichigo was his only hope.

i wonder if Urahara really saw any romantic pairing. Capricorns tend to think about more materialistic pursuits. It COULD have been a way, though, for him to get back at soul society...or the Kuchiki clan? who knows...