new fandom + the quincy key

[retro_eidas]

Just when I can't possibly be barraged with yet another fandom... another comes along of course. Within a few months, "Firefly" infected me like the plague. Then SGA came along. The newest edition to obsessive-compulsive speculating insanity? Bleach. For the non-otaku and/or minus a DLing fetish, you might not be familiar with this slice of fanon and thus this entry will mean absolutely nothing. However, it's the current hot item in anime... and my soul is all but it's bitch at the moment.

Also special thanks to new friends _debbiechan_ and mrs_urahara that propagate the :cough:hot Quincy:cough: speculating madness. Since I can't seem to join a fandom without being able to nerdily speculate about it ad infinitum, I'm not sure these poor folks realize what they've gotten themselves into. If either of you bother to read this, I apologize. A lot of it will be retread from bits of our "Significant Filler" discussion over at soul_society.

"The person who will protect this era... A Quincy is this key person." (not verbatim)
Oh the ridiculous amount of questions that statement has made for me... but it makes the sad, sad fangirl tingly in more naughty parts than I'd care to admit.

What exactly did Yoshino mean by a Quincy being "the key to save this era"? How do the Bound know this piece of information? Sounds like the makings of an impending prophecy reveal to me. Ishida part of some massive Bound prophecy... or just a prophecy in general? Something not necessarily limited to the Bound? Ryuuken? Souken? The Quincy (at least prior their genocide)? Perhaps more importantly (and scarily), the Shinigami?

Entirely hypotheticaly speaking... if the (or some... I'd say, Aizen and probably some or all of deceased Central 46) of the Shinigami are aware of this speculated prophecy regarding the Quincy and if the nature of the prophecy were threatening/apocalyptic/universe-altering/etc etc enough... What kind of precautions might they have taken? We already know now what they're capable of regarding those damn obstinate Quincy, so stubborn and proud to the point of imbalancing and threatening the end of the world they had to be permanently removed from the equation (or so we're told)... could they be capable of much more? Taking a look at Aizen, Gin and Mayuri... or hell, even those with 'good' intentions as Tousen, Yamamoto, Hinamori, Urahara and Byakuya... I'm truthfully afraid of the full extent of things they're capable of (whether it's willfully or unintentionally... by duty, honor, curiosity, misplaced justice or manipulation). Whatever their intentions. Who watches the Watchmen, indeed.

Was Mayuri purely satisfying his own insatiably sick curiousity regarding all his (apparently, mass amounts of) Quincy experiments? Or was there something more to it than that? Was he also going by orders? Orders from whom?

Was the Quincy Extermination of 200 years ago really unavoidable? Furthermore, if the extermination was such a "hard" decision as Rukia was told (via Urahara presumedly)... why or how did Mayuri get access to desecrate so many (I believe the number ranged around 1600+) Quincy for the sake of his experiments? Was he just that sly he could abscond with that many souls and go unnoticed? He doesn't seem to take much tact in keeping the Quincy experiments a secret if they're supposed to be secret (hell, he apparently carried around a memento on his person of at least one of the his favorite test subjects... Uryuu's grandfather/sensei, Souken) and he was talking about said experiments openly in Soul Society. Cpt. Kyouraku's departing comments to him in ep71 would also make me lean towards Mayuri's hobbies not necessarily secrets (and what does Kyouraku and possibly the other Shinigami know exactly about those hobbies?). I do unfortunately find it hard to believe the Shinigami didn't have some general idea what was happening to those Quincy. If Ryuuken has any kind of fuel in reigniting Uryuu's hatred of the Death Gods, this probably would be his coup de grace.

In regards to the above paragraph... one could speculate every action Ryuuken has taken was in part of some greater purpose, one that he believes (as did Souken?) is destined for Uryuu.

What exactly did Urahara do that was so bad that led to his exile from Soul Society? Particularly considering some of Mengele-taicho's hobbies (and he isn't only still partaking in said hobbies, but is the current 12th Division Captain. The frickin' promoted him. Jesus). What did he do that was so much worse than what Mayuri has done/is doing? Sure the Hogyoku could be bad enough. However... I do wonder if Mayuri has friends in very high places. He may not have ascended into HellHeaven a la Aizen, but another compadre perhaps?

I'm also wondering if Urahara's exile was so involuntary as it sounds. The word "exile" tends to exclaim 'involuntary', of course and I don't doubt it was completely serious and all forcible on the part of Shinigami's ruling body ... but I can't help but wonder just a little 'self-imposed' might factor in as well? Ditto Tessai (who I'd bet anything was Urahara's koutaicho), Yoriuchi and Isshin. I mean to say, Urahara might not have completely regretted leaving. Urahara, possibly Tessai, Yoriuchi and Isshin... all were in *high* positions of power. Until they were just... not anymore. Could it be they may have learned some very dirty and very ugly secrets about SS and wanted to leave (in utter moral disagreement and possibly in fear of their lives. Loose lips sink hellheaven-bound ships, after all)? Yoruichi took it all a step further and was apparently all but *dead* to the Shinigami for a CENTURY. Since I don't follow the manga as closely as I probably should... I'd guess Isshin also possibly faked his death (my guess? Kenpachi believes he'd killed him. Isshin just screams former 11th Division taicho to me).

And on an entirely unrelated venue... what the hell is Cpt. Komamura? Unfortunate recipient of a high level demon spell gone bad? Youkai? Possibly more likely, a hanyou (he seems to have a similar sort of shame/angst as young Inuyasha did. Consequence of a taboo youkai/human union... and made to feel that way most of his life, up until meeting Commander Yamamoto and Tousen)?

Comments

dissecting delights part 1

[mrs-urahara.livejournal.com]

So my brain does not go on overload here...as if already hasn't ..but this is just TOOOO good a discussion to pass up...

"Shinigami + Quincy = Some cataclysmic event... possibly something the Shinigami feared above all things (due to the prophecies of some Cassandra soothsayer type or their own paranoias in the combination of two such powerful beings). Due (in theory) to Isshin marrying and procreating with a secret Quincy"

--- I GET IT NOW. I could not quite understand where you were going with Masaki as a quincy. I thought "possible...but how?" now you tell me! thank you!! I get it. there COULD be an alterior motive to the anihilation of quincies...AND would also explain perhaps Mayuris experimentation with the Quincies too. If the union of quincy and shinigami was a catalyst to being a hybrid hollow...it would explain the extermination. AND, maybe, it was during this time that Maskai went into hiding, as did Ryuuken. BUT, here is where it does not match up..and throws me for a total loop...RUkia said that the QUincy were exterminated 200 yrs ago. Now, if they exterminated ALL the quincies, would this not mean that Uryuu's grandfather was at least 200yrs old? OR, rather, like the Jews during WW2, some went into hiding and were able to survive by keeping off the radar...but, then that would assume that there are more secret quincies out there.

okay, so if we go with the prospect that a few went into hiding, say one was the Ishida clan and another was Masaki's clan. And, one totally hid their powers (masaki's group) and the other continued to teach their children their history (Ishida clan), but as the generation of Ishida grew on, only Uryuu's grandfather kept up the teachings.

so then, in walks Masaki...completely CLUELESS to the fact she has these latent quincy powers and Isshin steps into her life. Now, he, being a shinigami probably sensed something different about this girl. NOw, let's say that at the time..RYuuken had not resolved to put his QUincy past aside and meets the beautiful Masaki and senses her quincy powers too.

I am figuring, if they both knew about it..they both may have felt some duty in protecting/hiding her from the shinigami and hollows alike. Now, I am figuring that URyuuken may have felt that he had a better chance with the hot mamma masaki, seeing they had this QUincy tie (even though she is not aware of it). But, my bet is that Isshin was COMPLETELY enamoured of Masaki, and she was intrigued by him, but I deem Ryuuken's intellectual and "self-sacrificing" nature may have her in his favour> mY guess is that Isshin's playful and carefree nature won over the demure and gentle maiden's heart.

So...yeh..there's more. This would inevitably cause bad blood for Ryuujen and for him to renounce his quincy powers. AND< INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH...MAYBE.....MAYBE...this is why Uryuu always remembers his mother's sadness masked in her smile. Perhaps she knew that Ryuuken never truly loved her. hmmmm...

now, Isshin & masaki marry. Masaki is pregnant with Ichigo. Perhaps, it is when Ichigo is born that Isshin notices something different and takes counsel with Urahara. They decide to "let sleeping dogs lie". So, it goes unsaid and hidden until Masaki's death, and Isshin sees that Ichigo's powers are growing and something needs to be done, perhaps? so, maybe Isshin and Urahara keep close tabs on him until Rukia appears and wakes the "sleeping dog" in Ichigo.

gah!! where am i going with this? who knows. It's all stream of consciousness. Sounds more like a fanfic than speculation, neh? heehee.

The Quincy Conspiracy

[eido.livejournal.com]

I could not quite understand where you were going with Masaki as a quincy. I thought "possible...but how?" now you tell me! thank you!! I get it. there COULD be an alterior motive to the anihilation of quincies...AND would also explain perhaps Mayuris experimentation with the Quincies too. If the union of quincy and shinigami was a catalyst to being a hybrid hollow...it would explain the extermination.

Bingo. ;)

BUT, here is where it does not match up..and throws me for a total loop...RUkia said that the QUincy were exterminated 200 yrs ago. Now, if they exterminated ALL the quincies, would this not mean that Uryuu's grandfather was at least 200yrs old? OR, rather, like the Jews during WW2, some went into hiding

My opinion? I think it was very much like the Jews of WWII (and those who went into hiding). Either they got as far away as they could somehow from Soul Society by their own means, disassociated themselves from other Quincy (converted or vowed to renounce the Quincy ways) OR some of them were protected. Either by rogue Shinigami who smuggled them away some place safe or some other magical/supernatural force(s) who might have taken sympathy on them or were offered some compensation for aide (Bound? Vaizard? Friendly Youkai? Gods? Considering how many options there are in Japanese myth & folklore - and it's various incarnations in popular anime - for Kubo-san? The possibilities are endless).

then that would assume that there are more secret quincies out there.

The Ishidas, maybe Masaki's family (if she wasn't an Ishida)... Chad's, Inoue's, Arasawa's or Keigo's parents/family too perhaps?

the generation of Ishida grew on, only Uryuu's grandfather kept up the teachings.

That could very well be. I always thought it was kind of strange how the Ishidas managed to retain their powers and survive this long. I believe Uryuu mentions the Shinigami kept a close eye on his grandfather all his life (thus why Uryuu was so angry when the Shinigami didn't respond quickly when Souken was being attacked by Hollows since they were monitoring him. We discover later Mayuri delayed the Shinigami on purpose. It would make sense he was the one monitoring the remaining known Quincy, being head of the 12th Division and all).

my bet is that Isshin was COMPLETELY enamoured of Masaki, and she was intrigued by him

And if Masaki were clueless to her abilities, she also may naturally know nothing about the long-time anomosity between Shinigami and Quincy. She'd know nothing of her own history. Although I suppose Ryuuken isn't as big a bastard as he may seem if he didn't just flat-out tell her what she was and why she shouldn't be with the likes of Kurosaki Isshin. Then again, if he did tell her... that didn't seem to stop her from being with Isshin anyway. Heh.

mY guess is that Isshin's playful and carefree nature won over the demure and gentle maiden's heart.

Which likely burned Ryuuken. Which likely only served to accentuate any hatred he might have already had of the Shinigami.

So...yeh..there's more. This would inevitably cause bad blood for Ryuujen and for him to renounce his quincy powers.

Or give him more reason to get stronger and eventually seek vengeance... but granted, definitely not only for the Masaki thing.

MAYBE this is why Uryuu always remembers his mother's sadness masked in her smile. Perhaps she knew that Ryuuken never truly loved her. hmmmm...

And if Ryuuken still loved Masaki, even now, that would make him hate Isshin (and his spawn) all the more. Isshin failed to protect her. What's more, she died protecting Isshin's bastard son who recklessly charged the Grand Fisher not realizing what it was. However, now Ryuuken might be using Uryuu as a tool to help seek vengeance not only against Isshin and his family, but all the Shinigami... possibly due to that (speculated) Quincy Key prophecy. Ryuuken might be absolutely convinced it's Uryuu that's the key ... but OH how it would burn him yet again if it turned out to be one of the Kurosakis... in my theories, Yuzu.

Re: The Quincy Conspiracy

[mrs-urahara.livejournal.com]

"The Ishidas, maybe Masaki's family (if she wasn't an Ishida)... Chad's, Inoue's, Arasawa's or Keigo's parents/family too perhaps?"
--i wonder if Kubo-san is really going to explain where everyone's powers are stemming. If you take it that every human being DOES have latent spiritual powers, waiting to be awakened (which, when you think about the ideology of alot of the spiritual teachings. it is about awakening one's soul, spiritual enlightment, perhaps?). He obviously shows us that both Ishida and Ichigo inhereted their abilities..but what about the others? From Chad & Inoue's awakening, it seems it came from a desire to protect others (for inoue--loved ones and for Chad--to use his strength to help those "weaker")

Although I suppose Ryuuken isn't as big a bastard as he may seem if he didn't just flat-out tell her what she was and why she shouldn't be with the likes of Kurosaki Isshin. Then again, if he did tell her... that didn't seem to stop her from being with Isshin anyway. Heh
--i would not be surprised if it were the latter, something tells me Masaki has spirit and fire in her that is unrivaled. (which would explain the fire in the Kurosaki kids...though, they also got that in part from the renegade smexy shinigami pappa.)

Which likely burned Ryuuken. Which likely only served to accentuate any hatred he might have already had of the Shinigami
--don't you KNOW it! ;P

And if Ryuuken still loved Masaki, even now, that would make him hate Isshin (and his spawn) all the more. Isshin failed to protect her. What's more, she died protecting Isshin's bastard son who recklessly charged the Grand Fisher not realizing what it was. However, now Ryuuken might be using Uryuu as a tool to help seek vengeance not only against Isshin and his family, but all the Shinigami
---ooooooo...could you imagine?? How HOT That would be? yummmm that is an enticing storyline.

"but OH how it would burn him yet again if it turned out to be one of the Kurosakis... in my theories, Yuzu."
---would it ever!!

this also leads me to believe, that Orihime DOES play a major role, as Kubo-san stated. I keep wondering if our little orihime may end up playing out the same "triangle" with ishida and Ichigo. I mean, if Orihime admits that she "loves" Kurosaki, and Ishida falls for Orihime. It may be an older story retold, but perhaps, with resolution and peace. My heart is set on Orihime and Ishida. I really want Renji and Rukia to end up together, but I have a feeling it will be rukia and Ichigo. Though, with the intro Of Lisa...oooo, i'd love ichigo and Lisa to rumble/tumble. ;P

Re: The Quincy Conspiracy

[eido.livejournal.com]

He obviously shows us that both Ishida and Ichigo inhereted their abilities

For me, it's a toss-up. The possibility is open for mystery in Chad's and Inoue's lineage (in that both their parents were conveniently out of the picture early in life)... or not. They could just be regular humans whose average spirit power was drastically altered due to the proximity to godlike-powered Ichigo... or they have a little (rogue) Shinigami, Quincy, Bound, etc etc somewhere deep inside of them. Kubo could go anywhere yet.

this also leads me to believe, that Orihime DOES play a major role, as Kubo-san stated. I keep wondering if our little orihime may end up playing out the same "triangle" with ishida and Ichigo.

That could be a definite possibility. Ichigo is attached to Rukia (and, from what I can tell, only seems to have platonic/filial feelings for Orihime. Not so different from Chad or perhaps one of his sisters), but Orihime is infatuated with him... and Ishida could easily reveal he has feelings for Orihime (which would prove a fountain of angst for him considering the promise he made his father about staying away from the Shinigami. Inoue isn't Shinigami, but she's always hounding around Ichigo and he's always with Rukia & the other Shin). It's a potential mess waiting to happen. On a side note, rereading the recent chapters of the manga... Kubo-san does seem like he could be saving Ishida for something big, probably (or hopefully!) soon. Taking him out of the action as he has and introducing his daddy in such a drastic way (paralleled with the introduction of Isshin-the-Shinigami)? Again, it looks like Kubo is going back to contrasting Ishida and Ichigo... maybe for a very specific way.

My heart is set on Orihime and Ishida.

heee Me too. So many things about both compliment one another in such interesting ways.... and they're crazy cute. So adorkable. So much to love! I really do hope this is the way Kubo goes.

I really want Renji and Rukia to end up together, but I have a feeling it will be rukia and Ichigo.

I can't really complain about that. I like Renji/Rukia, but my support is going to have to go to Ichi/Ruki. Love those two... besides, Renji is FOR ME DAMN IT!!! It's just wrong... Kubo drawing a character where I'm constantly wondering if tattoos in Soul Society come flavored. WRONG!

Re: The Quincy Conspiracy

[mrs-urahara.livejournal.com]

"Ichigo is attached to Rukia (and, from what I can tell, only seems to have platonic/filial feelings for Orihime. Not so different from Chad or perhaps one of his sisters), but Orihime is infatuated with him."
--Yeh, you are right about the way Ichigo feels toward Orihime. And, it was a "jealousy" toward Rukia that made Orihime realise she loves Ichigo. She saw the way Ichigo was utterly concerned with Rukia after she fought with the arrancar and caused her to be brutally wounded.
When Kubo said Orihime would be important... .you can't but help wonder what his plan is. Orihime admits her jealousy of Ichigo..i am wondering, if her sweet selflessness will end up being the catalyst for Ichigo or Rukia to confront how they REALLY feel? She did it with rukia when she thought Ishida was in love with Rukia (making rukia promise to wear the dress) . . .

'Kubo-san does seem like he could be saving Ishida for something big, probably (or hopefully!) soon. Taking him out of the action as he has and introducing his daddy in such a drastic way (paralleled with the introduction of Isshin-the-Shinigami)? Again, it looks like Kubo is going back to contrasting Ishida and Ichigo... maybe for a very specific way."
--definitely. i think the way they both teamed up to beat the hollows when they first met, will somehow happen on a grander scale..though, this arc seems like it will follow the SS arc..with a battle-of-the-all-stars kind of feel to it, neh? AND, will use it renconcile character arcs,neh?

--i can see something between Rangiku & gin..perhaps with him sacrificing his life to protect or save her, thus revealing to her (and us) how he feels...and perhaps why he aligned with AIzne in the first place. and, I also wonder about Yoruichi and Kisuke. She tells Kisuke that neither them are going to "die a peaceful death"..to which Kisuke reminds her, that is inevitable... i was thinking abou that one....perhaps they will die together? it could be a foreshadow of things to come?

"(paralleled with the introduction of Isshin-the-Shinigami"
---I am AALLLLLL for more Hot-pappa Isshin as SHinigami SMex god.BRING IT ON! I mean, if I were masaki, and saw him in his shinigami attire..i'd . . .i'd..... *smaks lips*

Re: The Quincy Conspiracy

[eido.livejournal.com]

Yeh, you are right about the way Ichigo feels toward Orihime.

Regardless what happens between them, I'm really hard-pressed seeing that ever change. It's just really hard for me to see Ichigo ever returning Orihime's affection in the way she desperately wants him to, even if they do start dating.

When Kubo said Orihime would be important... .you can't but help wonder what his plan is.

I admit I'm somewhat worried about the direction Kubo may go. Considering how the story was in the original Bleach pilot? However, I'd like to think - if any Ichigo/Orihime relationship does start (yuck!) - Kubo will make it clear Ichigo's heart is still elsewhere ... and probably always will be. Regardless of how sweet Orihime is and how much he cares for her (as a friend/sister). I'd also hope, since Kubo likes to keep his relationships complicated, Orihime - one of these future chapters - starts returning *some* kind of romantic-leaning feelings for at least one other person besides Ichigo. She's so singularly obsessed with him, it gets rather tiring and dull to me... it marginalizes her as a character imo. I'm cheering for that other person to be Ishida (and Orihime still upset with these newfound feelings, believing Ishida also has feelings for Rukia just like Ichigo ... when Ishi does not, but may in fact have real romantic feelings for her, but Ishi won't reveal those feeilngs either due to Orihime's obvious infatuation / relationship with Ichigo and/or his father's demands Ishi stay away from the Shinigami), but who knows what Kubo will do.

I also wonder about Yoruichi and Kisuke.

I'm pretty convinced those two are goners. Maybe not soon, but I do think they're two that will die in this series at some point. They're kind of like the surrogate father and mother of Ichigo and friends ... I could see them sacrificing themselves for their children one of these days.

oh..Orihime

[mrs-urahara.livejournal.com]

"She's so singularly obsessed with him, it gets rather tiring and dull to me... it marginalizes her as a character imo."
--agreed! Understated romantic feelings are much more enticing than overstaeted, redundant and implicit ones.

"I'm cheering for that other person to be Ishida (and Orihime still upset with these newfound feelings, believing Ishida also has feelings for Rukia just like Ichigo ... when Ishi does not, but may in fact have real romantic feelings for her, but Ishi won't reveal those feeilngs either due to Orihime's obvious infatuation / relationship with Ichigo and/or his father's demands Ishi stay away from the Shinigami)"
--i think he kinda is setting that up . . She does obviously think that Ishida likes RUkia because he made her that dress. That would set a GREAT romantic and enticing end for their two characters. Perhaps, he saves her in a way that makes Orihime know how he feels, without directly coming out with it.
I always seem to find that most manga lves to keep you wriggling when it comes to the implied romance. BUT, if KUbo-san keeps up the great writing...their will be resolution with those implied romances, whether overtly or covertly. ^___^

on Yoruichi & Urahara:
"I'm pretty convinced those two are goners. Maybe not soon, but I do think they're two that will die in this series at some point. They're kind of like the surrogate father and mother of Ichigo and friends ... I could see them sacrificing themselves for their children one of these days."
--- i think when Yoruichi said that they may not die a peaceful death and Kisuke retorted that it's a given. . . I knew then. . .that those two were going to kick the bucket for some grand cause. And, it would be like those two to go out with a big bang (the same way they did in Soul SOciety)..than for them to live happily ever after.
Sometimes I wonder if it is Kisuke who will in the end bring down Aizen. since, it's HIS toy Aizen has...(now not saying that Ichigo is not going to have a hand in it..). this is how i see it..kisuke gives him the last to final blow, dies trying, Yoruichi comes in to take venegence on kisuke's death, then ichigo delivers the final blow....or something like that..
WHO KNOWS...i am just having fun making it all up. If kubo read this . . .he'd have a good chuckle on my behalf.

Re: The Quincy Conspiracy

[mrs-urahara.livejournal.com]

"and they're crazy cute. So adorkable."

---LUV it!!! "adorkable" that they are!

"It's just wrong... Kubo drawing a character where I'm constantly wondering if tattoos in Soul Society come flavored. WRONG!"
--I rememgber first coming to LJ, through a friend, and seeing their frontpage with the pic of Renji spreadeagle with his hair in braids and those f*kin tats on that INCREDIBLY cut bod of his..i was like "WTF?!?!?!". i asked my friend..(seeing I was only on chapter 3 in the US version...i think the manga was in like chapter 8 or 9)..who is that guy! when she told me, that's what made me go on an all-nighter reading the manga up-to-date and all the episodes. it was crazy! it took two days...non=stop. I went nuts! Still am! ;P

my only reason for hoping it WOULD be renji...only that i am always for the "underdog". I just don't think that Rukia, in the long run, would give up her life in soul society to be in the human world. Especially, really just starting her relationship with her brother and in a way, renji. THough, i love Rukia x Ichigo.. . . i gues i would just feel so sorry for Renji. he's a bit like Orihime, i guess. You know he loves Rukia, though unlike Orihime, he does not want to admit how he truly feels. be interesting to see how Kubo plays it all out.