SPN thoughts

[retro_eidas]

• Wow. That was quite bloody.
  
  
• Although, Dean honey, even the Ghost Hunters are wise enough to NOT go traipsing around scary places alone or at least tell someone where they're going. Ah yes, let's go exploring the subterranean dirt hole with no back-up.
  
  
• However, I did love the angel window as his salvation. Cas saving him even if it's only symbolically!
  
  
• Amazing! John Winchester has been dead for two seasons and he still manages to prove what a rat bastard of a father he was. He can take that kid to a baseball game but can't even call Dean back in "Home" or when Dean was dying in "Faith"? Right. I have to wonder if that kid might have actually lived too had John simply stayed away from him instead of storming into town playing loving daddy and while there started killing, thus pissing off, the local supernatural nasties. Making Adam and his mother instant targets and only with John's part-time protection. Well done dbag, well done. Oh, btw...
  
  
• No Sammy, I do not think Dean comparing you to John was a compliment. At all. And holy Jesus, Dean is right with that comparison too. Sam has always been very much like John (Dean also said as much in "Devil's Trap", but "Mystery Spot" proved it as well). Sammy was flipping scary tonight.
  
  
• Also glad to see all that Ruby-vampiring to make Sam SuperSammy is really coming into use with more than just demons.... oh wait. The writers were even rubbing it in our faces, with the ghouls mentioning Sam's blood "tastes different". Yes, that would be the juiced-up demon blood that's apparently NO USE AT ALL in a situation not involving demons. Y'all realize Lilith hired herself up some ghouls (or shapeshifters or vampires or whatever supernatural nasties hiring... or hell, some greedy, ne'er-do-well humans) and got the jump on Sam, he'd apparently be little use to stop them.
  
  
• "[Adam's] in a better place" He forgot that conversation with Tessa already, did he? It wasn't *that* many eps ago, Dean. Is that indicative of Dean still lying to himself or realizes it's a lie but would rather cling to the pretty words than even think of going down that Deal For Your Soul To Save A Brother road again (for one brief second there I thought that was what Sam was about to suggest and was ready for a rant until he mentioned Cas).

ETA. I'm also left baffled why we needed an ep that essentially boiled down to whatever remained of Dean's John Hero Worship about totally smashed to pieces and Sammy being a lot like John (which we already knew, but Sam seems to have embraced with an all new fervor). What relevance could this have so near the end of the season, to the finale?

Comments

[eido.livejournal.com]

I'm rather disapponting, the writers usually do well twisting other myths, but for this one they go for such a traditional interpretation.

I'm not entirely convinced they'll go for the traditional interpretation, not yet anyway. Of course, I could be eating those words come the finale and Lucifer is just another Azazel or Lilith. However, I only hold out judgment on Lucifer because some of the work (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernatural_(TV_series)) Kripke has taken inspiration in creating SPN (where Lucifer or a Lucifer metaphor appears), Lucifer isn't always depicted so traditionally.

SPN also does take a heavy influence from Westerns. Dean and Sam are essentially like outlaws, but leaning towards the Robin Hood sort. They lie, cheat and steal, but do so to "save people, hunt things", support the "family business". Western heroes are often men who have dubious reputations (lie, cheat, steal, murder, etc), they can be very unpleasant, but still be considered heroes (even if only in a technical sense). Compare the main character in "Unforgiven" (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0105695/), Bill Munny, with Dean, you do see a whole lot of similarities, even nearly the same dialogue sometimes. Bill could be, in many ways, a Lucifer or Satanic metaphor, but again, not a very traditional one. The Drifter in "High Plains Drifter" (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068699/) is an even more blatant Satanic metaphor (goes as far as demanding the town he's protecting painted red and renamed "Hell"), he's a total bastard, yet he basically does save the town from a bunch of thugs.

Hell, the music itself that's featured in SPN (and Kripke seems to be a huge fan) - from Black Sabbath (http://lyricwiki.org/Black_Sabbath:N.I.B.), AC/DC (http://lyricwiki.org/AC/DC:Highway_To_Hell), Bob Seger (http://lyricwiki.org/Bob_Seger:Lucifer) and the list goes on - isn't exactly condemning Lucifer in a fire and brimstone, Church-going sense. Jimmy Page from Led Zeppelin was actually a big Aleister Crowley fan (at one point, owning a house Crowley once owned). Zepp's famous logo, Icarus falling from the sky (http://makmo.info/herald/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/swan-song-led-zeppelin-poster1.jpg) (although the original painting they took it from, it was Apollo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Rimmer)), looks like a fallen angel.

I just had a thought: why aren't the angels torturing Ruby for info? She seems to know stuff. I hear there was a cut scene where the angels say she has some role to play, but I'm not counting that as canon. That's total BS.

I don't know if I'd call it BS yet. After all, Judas had his own role to play, even if it was helping get Christ crucified. We also know there are some angels around that actually want Lucifer to rise and possibly some amongst Castiel's superiors. Ruby could still be evil, but the same angels that ordered off Uriel from killing Ruby may believe Ruby has "a role to play" in Lucifer rising.

You have fricking awesome ideas. I dunno if I can do it justice, but I wanna make a fic out of it.

I'm not much for writing fanfic myself, but if you want to take a crack at it. Go right ahead. ;)

[julorean.livejournal.com]

All very good points. I *may* just return to watching (if they stop with the character butchering...). And Judas!Ruby. That certainly fits.

I won't watch the rest of the season tho, Sam's hemophagua us simply too disgusting, and I can't deal with the emotional abuse anymore, driving myself nuts over what might happen next week.

I just had a thought: maybe even the angels that aren't all for Lucifer know they can't stop it. Srsly, no logical person would set 600 or w/e seal and have him free to rise after breaking only 66. Not even if the first one was damned hard to break. The whole thing is some sorta test for Dean, and maybe Sam too. And if there is a bit of an Apocalypse - eh, those little mud-monkeys are adaptable, they'll survive.

[eido.livejournal.com]

I just had a thought: maybe even the angels that aren't all for Lucifer know they can't stop it... And if there is a bit of an Apocalypse - eh, those little mud-monkeys are adaptable, they'll survive.

Thus why the angels are such scary dicks, but then some of them were always capable of killing all first-born children in Egypt and killing a third of the fish in the sea. How they can handwave the devastation of an Apocalpyse either just because or it's necessary... that's incomprehensibly terrifying.

There's a reason why Tyler ends up dead at the end of "Fight Club". He's an out-of-control sociopathic, chaotic manifestation of the Narrator's mental illness. It's crazy on top of crazy. Yet at the same time, Tyler's "mayhem", although was necessary to break the Narrator's life out of the conformist, depressing rut it had been in, was ultimately just another form of conformity. Essentially becomes all too similar to what it was rebelling against even if by way of vigilantism.

You get the impression from Anna that angel society (almost like the FC Narrator's life) is almost Orwellian in it's rigidity. Anna - possibly like Lucifer - could be another Tyler and although chaos might initially be deserved for an "Ikea-obsessed", Orwellian angel society, it can all too easily turn into something nothing short of apocalyptic. That could be why Anna has a death sentence over her head. The angels that like how the society is now, of course they'd want her stopped. However, other angels may realize if angel society collapses, humanity could become extremely vulnerable. However, why is she still alive if these differing groups of angels are against her? Possibly because other angels think, like you say, "if there is a bit of an Apocalypse - eh, those little mud-monkeys are adaptable, they'll survive." For the same reason they might have left Ruby alive. Maybe humanity - and possibly the angels themselves - are in for one big brutal cleansing by way of an Apocalypse and Anna is (possibly knowingly and for dangerously self-absorbed reasons. Maybe getting back at them or "changing" how angels are) one of the harbingers of it?

The angels might be dicks, but they're also all humanity really has right now fighting in their corner. It's possible some demons could join up on the Dean & Sam human side, probably out of self-preservation, but I also don't see them having anything good planned for humanity either.

[julorean.livejournal.com]

Yep. Terrifying and completely plausible. Oh, Cas certainly wouldn't like it, but the higher-ups? Certainly wouldn't care so much.

Heh. Neither side is all that good. I'd join the third side: the Winchesters. They'd say a big fuck-you to both angels and demons and save the world anyway.