There's Something About Masaki

[retro_eidas]

Since this topic got lost in a mountainous discussion (::waves at mrs_urahara, compatriot in the madness::) in the last post (starting about here, more or less), I'm making an all new shiny post. Rah!

i BET the (Quincy genocide) story he gives to RUkia about what happened is not the REAL story.

Or it's not the complete story or it's told in half-truths. It is still possible the Quincy's actions - namely their stubborness - might have brought on the apocalypse as per the "official" explanation seems to dictate. Then again, that's not to say the Soul Society might not have also had other motives for wanting the Quincy exterminated (per our numerous speculations). Unfortunately, with the more I see of Soul Society (and how negligent, incompetent, over-confident and/or corrupt some sectors are), the more likely I think that may be the case.

Hell, we can't be totally sure how much of that "official" explanation (Quincy's obstinance forced the Shinigami into the extermination) is the truth in the first place. All there seems to be is the Shinigami word for it (The Quincy living now may also not have any other version of the story besides the one the Shinigami themselves have been told). It does seem very fishy. Negotiation was *that* impossible? The Shinigami couldn't have lowered the Quincy spiritual powers? I just find it hard to believe there was absolutely no other way besides genocide.

It would not surprise me that Isshin may have had something to do with it.

I kind of see him possibly something like Roy Mustang back then faced with the orders to murder Winry's parents... Isshin, so devastated by his "orders", he could barely deal with it. However, possibly unlike Roy, Isshin may not have been able to go through with his orders, or at least not try to do something to make up for what he did, even if he did go through with them. I do see Isshin as the rebellious type and he may have tried to save some of the Quincy, under the radar of his supervisors.

Also, if Masaki is indeed a Quincy or Quincy-descendant and Isshin likely knew it... he may have married her - apart from being in love with her, I do think he was - to get revenge against Central 46. If he was a Shinigami during the Quincy massacre and strongly opposed that decision... Isshin eventually marrying/procreating with a Quincy, he was doing the very thing his former supervisors feared the most (and they would have no idea at all their worst fear was coming true).

Of course, very hypotethetically speaking here... if there was a prophecy (as Yoshino might be hinting in ep71)... this hypothetical prophecy basically stating that the result of combining Quincy/Shinigami powers would eventually lead to the destruction of either Soul Society or Central 46? That prophecy seems to have come true. Central 46 has been destroyed. Except it wasn't actually Ichigo (aka, in theory, the physical result of a Quincy/Shinigami procreation and likely what Central 46 was most afraid of) who destroyed Central 46.... it was Shinigami, Aizen (aided by Gin and Tousen), who wanted the Hogyoku - and total power - for himself. What is the Hogyoku, per our theories? It's a creation of Urahara's that by combining Shinigami and Quincy powers releases Hollow abilities. Which means Central 46's extermination of the Quincy 200 years ago was apparently for nothing.... they *were* destroyed anyway AND due to a Quincy/Shinigami mixing, but *not* the mixing they were expecting.

However, it's also ironic, Aizen made his move on Central 46 upon the advent of Ichigo - the natural Hogyoku (in theory) - invading Soul Society. So, one could say, Ichigo *and* the Hogyoku announced the prophecied downfall of Central 46. Ichigo's appearance distracted the Shinigami and thus gave Aizen the time he needed to finalize his plans in taking the Hogyoku. Aizen wouldn't have been able to do what he did *without* Ichigo (and Rukia meeting Ichigo, thus Urahara gave her that gigai and the embedded Hogyuko inside it, etc etc). Ichigo and the Hogyoku... both the keys to this (hypothetical) prophecy and downfall of Central 46.

Just a few more random crack specs on Masaki-the-Quincy, but in my last post I included some visuals contrasting/comparing Ichigo's spirit power with (the known Quincy, apart from Ryuuken) Uryuu's. For redundancy, here they are again (and I just love posting pictures of pretty boys in my LJ)...

Now rewatching the eps of the Kurosaki ritual of visiting Masaki's grave and Ichi first fought the Grand Fisher (aka, murderer of his mother). Masaki's memories / spirit come forth (something about the Grand Fisher honoring her last wishes or something like that?)... I noticed something...

Now isn't *that* a lovely shade of blue? Reminds me all too much of Uryuu's furious blue streams of spirit power facing Mayuri.

It could certainly and have solely been a mother's love and steadfast desire to protect her offspring that spurned Masaki to do what she did. There doesn't necessarily have to be anything supernatural about it outside of perhaps keen intuition... but seemingly knowing Ichigo was in danger? So much so she threw herself onto him down a cliff, protecting him? And there is implication enough that Masaki seemed to know exactly why Ichigo was in danger (from a Hollow, aka, the Grand Fisher). If I recall, the Grand Fisher also seemed to target those (mostly women) of particularly high spiritual power... and Masaki was especially delicious. I do think Masaki was indeed all human, but if she were a (non-practicing) Quincy... that would indeed still make her human, just with supernatural abilities and a reiatsu well beyond the average human.

It could have also been a (normal human) mother's last wishes that manifested itself in the above cap to protect her son and give him a final goodbye ... or the fallback of all Quincy that apparently ever were - to the point of pathology, the way Mayuri made it sound - "By the Pride of the Quincy, I will not condone that." A mother's love... and an inherent Quincy Pride.... that kept Masaki (or her spirit) from being used - as so many Quincy were used and subjegated by Mayuri under his Ashisogi Jizou to torture/hurt each other - to hurt her only beloved (half Quincy) son? I'll say again, that is a lovely shade of blue.

Also, as I wondered repeatedly in the last post, I do wonder if 2661 Quincy tortured and mutilated by Mayuri just happened to breeze right under the Central 46 radar for 100 years. This is the same group that apparently took much hard deliberation on the eventual Quincy genocide 200 years prior the start of the events in ep1 ... or they weren't as clueless about it as it's been eluded. One way or another, it doesn't paint Soul Society in a very pleasant light at all. First there's the genocide which (supposedly) there was just *no* other way around and then this prolonged Mayuri Quincy-torturing. Seems pretty outrageous to me.

Is there something here? Maybe... but certainly nothing definitive (I suppose we wouldn't know for certain unless we started getting more hints from Masaki and/or Yuzu suddenly takes an acute interest in Kyudo or spouts long, overly dramatic diatribes facing cowardly enemies while glowing blue in a fab.u.lous becruxed outfit). Of course, maybe this is just me and my insane Ichigo-as-Kubo's-interpretation-of-Nephilim kick. Don't mind me.

All screencaps courtesy of Soul Society.

In addendum, I was just rewatching ep7 and a few more things came to my attention...

The design of Ichigo's duvet which I'm surprised I hadn't noticed before...

Did Ishida break into the Kurosaki clinic we don't know about, Quincyfying Ichigo's room? Allbeit it's not the most accurate portrayal of the Quincy cross (normally, blue cross against a white background), it seems to be the opposite of it actually (white cross against a blue background).

Incidentally, ep7 is also the ep we get the first inklings behind what happened to Ichigo's mother (in Ichi's words, she didn't die, she was "killed"). It's also the very first ep we ever see the (current) one and only Quincy in (anime) canon, Ishida (doing, *sighs*, needlepoint).


So one definitive Quincy connection in Ishida in his first appearance, another possible in Ichigo's duvet and where the speculations are concerned... also the first ep we get some answers about Ichigo's deceased, elusive mama, Masaki (the secret Quincy?). This ep immediately proceeds the miniarc of the Kurosakis visiting Masaki's grave.

Comments

Re: Utikake & SHunsui. the Pretty-boy pacifists.

[eido.livejournal.com]

Byakuya, was in disbelief, when Ichigo said he should use his bankai. Byakuya said it was impossible for anyone to reach bankai in that short amount of time, and if so, it is only truly prophesied amongst the noble houses that someone who can acheive bankai at that level only comes around once every several generations.

There have been several implications towards Ichigo being royalty or at least an elite of some kind. Everything from Byakuya's incredulity at his Ichi achieving Bankai so quickly (on that note, one could wonder about Urahara as well), Orihime's silly fantasies of Prince Ichi in foofy outfits (Orihime's name consisting of "Princess"... Ichigo's reincarnated sister, mother or wife? In that they incidentally have very similar hair, I'd suggest them coming from the same house, i.e, Ori as a reincarnated sister, maybe twin), Rukia being labelled "Princess of Rukongai" by some of her classmates (after being adopted by the Kuchiki clan), Anti-Ichigo referring to Ichi as "King" (there's also the Richard III parallels in the recent manga chapter).

There's also a mess of random, detail-oriented things about Ichi that could be hints towards a royal, namely Kingly, status. Even in Western parallels.... Ichi's leonine colored hair and his prevalence with lions (Kon, his sister saved by a lion-like ghost cat, etc) could be a parallel with the King of the Beasts (the lion is often the symbol of / strongly associated with many royal families throughout history), Aslan, shout-out to the famous British king, Richard the Lionhearted... the list goes on. Ichi pulling his zanpakuto from a box could be a parallel to the famous Arthurian tale of the sword pulled from the stone (thus proving Arthur as the one true king of England). Also ironic "Zangetsu" and "Zanpakuto" should have the same kanji in the first part of their names ("Zangetsu", king of all zanpakuto? Reflecting legendary swords such as Excalibur, Durandal or Kusanagi).

There are many specs out there about Zangetsu (the old man in black) as well... possibly the original king of Soul Society (the first Shinigami?) reincarnated as a sword-spirit within Ichigo.

then..it hit me....does this not ALLUDE that there IS something MORE to Ichigo than being a hollow/shin hybrid? would this not relegate the theories of either Isshin or Masaki belonging to one of the royal houses?

Another interesting spec is Masaki - a human - being an illegitimate product of (or descended from) some secret, forbidden (Royal?)Shinigami / Human union. If Ichigo is SS royalty, one could automatically expect it coming from dad since he has been revealed as a Shinigami (a powerful one at that)... yet it would be the kicker his specialness comes from his mother, not his father. Yet... I am still more inclined to my Quincy idea (only if for the reason - and wandering back to topic ;) - I seem to be finding more and more possible intriguing hints of a Quincy connection directly with Ichigo / his family and my perpetual belief of alterior Central 46 motives behind the Quincy genocide).

Re: Utikake & SHunsui. the Pretty-boy pacifists.

[mrs-urahara.livejournal.com]

"There's also a mess of random, detail-oriented things about Ichi that could be hints towards a royal, namely Kingly, status. Even in Western parallels.... "
-- yeh, i was thinking that. I am sure Kubo-san was influenced by stories like these. And, the Japanese have a fascination for western culture. ^____^
on an aside, funny thing about Arthur. (being half-scots, i love to tell this tale)..My uncle has a PhD in scottish History, and when i was home last (UGH!! it's been over a year and a half now!), he was telling me that there is all this excavation and archelogical digs happening in oh! CRAP! where was it now.... i think around Dumbarton/stirling (where some of my family resides now)...he was telling me that many arthurian historians/researches are NOW speculating and believe that camelot was ACTUALLY in SCOTLAND> (awwwww yeah!)i'll ask him about it, when i chat with him next. Of course, he'll go on for hours.

"There are many specs out there about Zangetsu (the old man in black) as well... possibly the original king of Soul Society (the first Shinigami?) reincarnated as a sword-spirit within Ichigo."
-- wow. i never knew that. was that in some of the earlier threads in LJ SS? that would be sooo cool! and, going back to the whole Arthurian thing...he does act like a merlin for Ichigo....or would that be urahara? heh=heh.
speaking of Zangetsu ... I really miss him! I am hoping he is going to make a comeback within the next couple of chapters. he's a great character.

"yet it would be the kicker his specialness comes from his mother, not his father."
-- i actually think that would be more of Kubo-san's MO. At some point, Ichigo is going to see that his shinigami ability (not directly) was inherited from his dad. I could see the other part of his powers coming from his Mum, and, again seeing this has a "coming of age" flava to it, Isshin may be waiting for THAT time to tell his son the truth of his roots.

I think the QUincy speculation could be TIED in with the notion of Ichigo being royalty. Again, it could be that Masaki was a quincy and did not know it. AND, if Isshin were from a "royal" line, just like BYakuya, his union with Masaki would have been forbidden. It could just add onto the layer of our on-going quincy dissertation. ;P

Re: Utikake & SHunsui. the Pretty-boy pacifists.

[eido.livejournal.com]

i never knew that. was that in some of the earlier threads in LJ SS?

It's appeared on some Bleach message boards with general specs about Zangetsu a couple times.

he does act like a merlin for Ichigo....or would that be urahara?

Urahara and Zangetsu have both played the sensei/master character for Ichi. More still, it was Urahara who helped awaken the true nature of Zangetsu for Ichi.

For some reason, Zangetsu reminds me a lot of the Arthur figure in Susan Cooper's The Dark is Rising sequence. Ichigo as somewhere between Bran or Will. I've often thought the zanpakuto were powerful spirits reincarnated in the way they were due to past sins or hubris of some kind that they're knowingly trying to make amends, find Dharma or whatever you want to call it. Zangetsu seems almost willingly trapped in a way. Consigned yet unhappy about his fate, but will do all in his power to help Ichigo. It seems characters like that are always carrying some kind of massive regret. The wisened, powerful old mentor (the Merlin to Arthur, the Obi-Wan to Luke Skywalker, Hamlet's father, etc etc) with the tarnished past who strives to push their liege forward.

I think the QUincy speculation could be TIED in with the notion of Ichigo being royalty. Again, it could be that Masaki was a quincy and did not know it.

Again, that could tie into the Ichigo / Christ parallels. Mary was a descendant of David. Masaki was a Quincy?

Now after watching ep73, I'm even more curious about Kariya and Yoshino's past together... and in regards to Uryuu.

Ichigo & Uryuu

[mrs-urahara.livejournal.com]

"Consigned yet unhappy about his fate, but will do all in his power to help Ichigo. It seems characters like that are always carrying some kind of massive regret. The wisened, powerful old mentor (the Merlin to Arthur, the Obi-Wan to Luke Skywalker, Hamlet's father, etc etc) with the tarnished past who strives to push their liege forward."

---sooo right!

oh, and i have been rewatching the series from the start...made me think about what you said with the a[[earance of Ishida. I started to really see urahara's REACTION to the whole thing in a new light. There was something in his demeanor that you KNEW he had some hand in the whole Ishida VS Ichigo. Not to mention, you wonder if in some way, he KNEW that Ishida would be have to be the one to sorta instegate Ichigo's abilities and heighten his powers. Also, I was re-reading the chapters in the manga with Isshin and Urahara. I'll post that seperately. SOOO interesting!!

Luv these conversations with you!

^___^

Re: Ichigo & Uryuu

[eido.livejournal.com]

oh, and i have been rewatching the series from the start...made me think about what you said with the a[[earance of Ishida. I started to really see urahara's REACTION to the whole thing in a new light.

Urahara (his reactions, motives, intelligence, experiments/projects, exile, etc) are so often the crux of a lot of the questions / suspicions I have surrounding most of the characters and plot. It seems like no matter how often I think about things, I always somehow come back to Urahara. I still don't think his ultimate intents are necessarily malevolent, but ... I can't help but shake that he may be behind a whole lot of whatever is going on in the greater plot.

There was something in his demeanor that you KNEW he had some hand in the whole Ishida VS Ichigo.

Had Ishida not been there, Ichigo may very well have died. Convenient, eh? As you noted of course, it's also Ishida's bait that started the contest between him and Ichi (although Ishida notices that his bait couldn't have attracted that many Hollows. Something we haven't had a sufficient answer to as yet. It's very possible they were attracted to the Hogyoku inside of Rukia and/or Ichigo's bizarrely massive reiatsu, but nothing definitive was ever stated about it).

Not to mention, you wonder if in some way, he KNEW that Ishida would be have to be the one to sorta instegate Ichigo's abilities and heighten his powers.

And the incident didn't only heighten Ichi's powers, but awoke Orihime's and Chad's as well. Again, there's Urahara to collect both after their powers were unleashed and left them exhausted ... it's certainly possible he followed their reiatsu, but like so many things with him, I doubt it's something so simple.

Also, I was re-reading the chapters in the manga with Isshin and Urahara. I'll post that seperately. SOOO interesting!!

Can't wait. ;)

Re: Ichigo & Uryuu

[mrs-urahara.livejournal.com]

"I still don't think his ultimate intents are necessarily malevolent, but ... I can't help but shake that he may be behind a whole lot of whatever is going on in the greater plot."
--TOTALLY!! I was thinking how, you could probably re-read the manga from the entire perspective of Urahara. YOu can think..what's he thinking? what's he planning? and, again, it REALLY hit me when i re-read the chapters with Isshin and Urahara...also makes me think..you could ALSO re-read the manga from the beginning from ISsshin's POV>

"very possible they were attracted to the Hogyoku inside of Rukia "
--YOu know...it COULD very possibly be. If you think, how Aizen said he KNEW what Urahara did the minute Rukia re-surfaced..and with Aizen's PREVIOUS connections with the hollows (i.e. he created the ones that could not be detected and the kind that engulfed Kaien). Aizen COULD have forseeably used the Gillians to try to get to Rukia.

"Again, there's Urahara to collect both after their powers were unleashed and left them exhausted ... it's certainly possible he followed their reiatsu, but like so many things with him, I doubt it's something so simple."
--WIth URahara...its NEVER simple..neh?

Re: Ichigo & Uryuu

[eido.livejournal.com]

it REALLY hit me when i re-read the chapters with Isshin and Urahara...also makes me think..you could ALSO re-read the manga from the beginning from ISsshin's POV

Or even Ryuuken's POV, maybe. ::needs hot pappa (with tons of secrets) icons::

Re: Ichigo & Uryuu

[mrs-urahara.livejournal.com]

"Or even Ryuuken's POV, maybe. ::needs hot pappa (with tons of secrets) icons::"

oh yessh. DEFINITELY Hotpappa with secrets...a must. ^___^