There's Something About Masaki

[retro_eidas]

Since this topic got lost in a mountainous discussion (::waves at mrs_urahara, compatriot in the madness::) in the last post (starting about here, more or less), I'm making an all new shiny post. Rah!

i BET the (Quincy genocide) story he gives to RUkia about what happened is not the REAL story.

Or it's not the complete story or it's told in half-truths. It is still possible the Quincy's actions - namely their stubborness - might have brought on the apocalypse as per the "official" explanation seems to dictate. Then again, that's not to say the Soul Society might not have also had other motives for wanting the Quincy exterminated (per our numerous speculations). Unfortunately, with the more I see of Soul Society (and how negligent, incompetent, over-confident and/or corrupt some sectors are), the more likely I think that may be the case.

Hell, we can't be totally sure how much of that "official" explanation (Quincy's obstinance forced the Shinigami into the extermination) is the truth in the first place. All there seems to be is the Shinigami word for it (The Quincy living now may also not have any other version of the story besides the one the Shinigami themselves have been told). It does seem very fishy. Negotiation was *that* impossible? The Shinigami couldn't have lowered the Quincy spiritual powers? I just find it hard to believe there was absolutely no other way besides genocide.

It would not surprise me that Isshin may have had something to do with it.

I kind of see him possibly something like Roy Mustang back then faced with the orders to murder Winry's parents... Isshin, so devastated by his "orders", he could barely deal with it. However, possibly unlike Roy, Isshin may not have been able to go through with his orders, or at least not try to do something to make up for what he did, even if he did go through with them. I do see Isshin as the rebellious type and he may have tried to save some of the Quincy, under the radar of his supervisors.

Also, if Masaki is indeed a Quincy or Quincy-descendant and Isshin likely knew it... he may have married her - apart from being in love with her, I do think he was - to get revenge against Central 46. If he was a Shinigami during the Quincy massacre and strongly opposed that decision... Isshin eventually marrying/procreating with a Quincy, he was doing the very thing his former supervisors feared the most (and they would have no idea at all their worst fear was coming true).

Of course, very hypotethetically speaking here... if there was a prophecy (as Yoshino might be hinting in ep71)... this hypothetical prophecy basically stating that the result of combining Quincy/Shinigami powers would eventually lead to the destruction of either Soul Society or Central 46? That prophecy seems to have come true. Central 46 has been destroyed. Except it wasn't actually Ichigo (aka, in theory, the physical result of a Quincy/Shinigami procreation and likely what Central 46 was most afraid of) who destroyed Central 46.... it was Shinigami, Aizen (aided by Gin and Tousen), who wanted the Hogyoku - and total power - for himself. What is the Hogyoku, per our theories? It's a creation of Urahara's that by combining Shinigami and Quincy powers releases Hollow abilities. Which means Central 46's extermination of the Quincy 200 years ago was apparently for nothing.... they *were* destroyed anyway AND due to a Quincy/Shinigami mixing, but *not* the mixing they were expecting.

However, it's also ironic, Aizen made his move on Central 46 upon the advent of Ichigo - the natural Hogyoku (in theory) - invading Soul Society. So, one could say, Ichigo *and* the Hogyoku announced the prophecied downfall of Central 46. Ichigo's appearance distracted the Shinigami and thus gave Aizen the time he needed to finalize his plans in taking the Hogyoku. Aizen wouldn't have been able to do what he did *without* Ichigo (and Rukia meeting Ichigo, thus Urahara gave her that gigai and the embedded Hogyuko inside it, etc etc). Ichigo and the Hogyoku... both the keys to this (hypothetical) prophecy and downfall of Central 46.

Just a few more random crack specs on Masaki-the-Quincy, but in my last post I included some visuals contrasting/comparing Ichigo's spirit power with (the known Quincy, apart from Ryuuken) Uryuu's. For redundancy, here they are again (and I just love posting pictures of pretty boys in my LJ)...

Now rewatching the eps of the Kurosaki ritual of visiting Masaki's grave and Ichi first fought the Grand Fisher (aka, murderer of his mother). Masaki's memories / spirit come forth (something about the Grand Fisher honoring her last wishes or something like that?)... I noticed something...

Now isn't *that* a lovely shade of blue? Reminds me all too much of Uryuu's furious blue streams of spirit power facing Mayuri.

It could certainly and have solely been a mother's love and steadfast desire to protect her offspring that spurned Masaki to do what she did. There doesn't necessarily have to be anything supernatural about it outside of perhaps keen intuition... but seemingly knowing Ichigo was in danger? So much so she threw herself onto him down a cliff, protecting him? And there is implication enough that Masaki seemed to know exactly why Ichigo was in danger (from a Hollow, aka, the Grand Fisher). If I recall, the Grand Fisher also seemed to target those (mostly women) of particularly high spiritual power... and Masaki was especially delicious. I do think Masaki was indeed all human, but if she were a (non-practicing) Quincy... that would indeed still make her human, just with supernatural abilities and a reiatsu well beyond the average human.

It could have also been a (normal human) mother's last wishes that manifested itself in the above cap to protect her son and give him a final goodbye ... or the fallback of all Quincy that apparently ever were - to the point of pathology, the way Mayuri made it sound - "By the Pride of the Quincy, I will not condone that." A mother's love... and an inherent Quincy Pride.... that kept Masaki (or her spirit) from being used - as so many Quincy were used and subjegated by Mayuri under his Ashisogi Jizou to torture/hurt each other - to hurt her only beloved (half Quincy) son? I'll say again, that is a lovely shade of blue.

Also, as I wondered repeatedly in the last post, I do wonder if 2661 Quincy tortured and mutilated by Mayuri just happened to breeze right under the Central 46 radar for 100 years. This is the same group that apparently took much hard deliberation on the eventual Quincy genocide 200 years prior the start of the events in ep1 ... or they weren't as clueless about it as it's been eluded. One way or another, it doesn't paint Soul Society in a very pleasant light at all. First there's the genocide which (supposedly) there was just *no* other way around and then this prolonged Mayuri Quincy-torturing. Seems pretty outrageous to me.

Is there something here? Maybe... but certainly nothing definitive (I suppose we wouldn't know for certain unless we started getting more hints from Masaki and/or Yuzu suddenly takes an acute interest in Kyudo or spouts long, overly dramatic diatribes facing cowardly enemies while glowing blue in a fab.u.lous becruxed outfit). Of course, maybe this is just me and my insane Ichigo-as-Kubo's-interpretation-of-Nephilim kick. Don't mind me.

All screencaps courtesy of Soul Society.

In addendum, I was just rewatching ep7 and a few more things came to my attention...

The design of Ichigo's duvet which I'm surprised I hadn't noticed before...

Did Ishida break into the Kurosaki clinic we don't know about, Quincyfying Ichigo's room? Allbeit it's not the most accurate portrayal of the Quincy cross (normally, blue cross against a white background), it seems to be the opposite of it actually (white cross against a blue background).

Incidentally, ep7 is also the ep we get the first inklings behind what happened to Ichigo's mother (in Ichi's words, she didn't die, she was "killed"). It's also the very first ep we ever see the (current) one and only Quincy in (anime) canon, Ishida (doing, *sighs*, needlepoint).


So one definitive Quincy connection in Ishida in his first appearance, another possible in Ichigo's duvet and where the speculations are concerned... also the first ep we get some answers about Ichigo's deceased, elusive mama, Masaki (the secret Quincy?). This ep immediately proceeds the miniarc of the Kurosakis visiting Masaki's grave.

Comments

[mrs-urahara.livejournal.com]

"If I recall, the Grand Fisher also seemed to target those (mostly women) of particularly high spiritual power... and Masaki was especially delicious. I do think Masaki was indeed all human, but if she were a (non-practicing) Quincy... that would indeed still make her human, just with supernatural abilities and a reiatsu well beyond the average human."
--aboslutely right. No matter what, there is DEFINITELY something about Masaki. SHe HAD to have had some extraordinary spirituall abilites for a human, whether quincy or non-quincy.

"One way or another, it doesn't paint Soul Society in a very pleasant light at all. First there's the genocide which (supposedly) there was just *no* other way around and then this prolonged Mayuri Quincy-torturing. Seems pretty outrageous to me."
--definitely...which leads us back to why Isshin and Urahara may have "left" soul society. What strikes me, is that the other Taichos...especially ones like Shunsui and Utikake did not suspect the corruption in Soul Society..but then again..they do have two "blind spots": Utikake has his tuberculosis (at least that's what it looks like he has) and Shunsui has his laissee-faire attitude (chasing women, drinking, slacking off)
it also seems, from utikake's reference, that Aizen may be the only other "original" taicho. What struck me about that was how Utikake addresses Aizen as "Aizen-kun"..which is used between male students. Also, byakuya calls Utikake "my senior"..and we know that Sai Fong, Mayuri, Gin, Hitsu, at least, started i would think at least 100yrs ago or less (sifong and mayuri upon urahara and Yoruichi's leave). this leaves the other half..the only one that MAY be an "older" taicho too could be kenpachi (no reference as to his start as a taicho).
which makes me wonder..if say...only HALF of the captains were there from the start, or we know of their takeover from previous captains, what happened to the rest? just a wild random thought there.

and, we did need to start a new thread, neh? I think we are settting records here. heh--heh

[eido.livejournal.com]

What strikes me, is that the other Taichos...especially ones like Shunsui and Utikake did not suspect the corruption in Soul Society.

Or they know it's there, but running off or revolting may not be the way they see as trying to make things better. Basically I see Ukitake and Shunsui as two balancers within the balancers.

Utikake has his tuberculosis (at least that's what it looks like he has)

According to Wikipedia (which isn't so reliable admittedly, it's user-submitted), that's what he has... which baffles me. Humans - with the proper medical treatment and facilities - don't suffer from tuberculosis anymore. How is it one of the mighty and apparently oldest of the Death Gods has perpetually suffered from it? How does that even work?

Shunsui has his laissee-faire attitude (chasing women, drinking, slacking off)

Also, seemingly much like Ukitake, doesn't care for violence and try to avoid it whenever they can. Which isn't a bad thing, but... considering how fubar Soul Society is, especially after the Aizen shake-up? It could be that laissez-faire / bordering-pacifist mentality may not pass anymore.

which makes me wonder..if say...only HALF of the captains were there from the start, or we know of their takeover from previous captains, what happened to the rest? just a wild random thought there.

It's unusual though, it does seem that in a rather short duration of time, SS lost a good chunk of some of those 13 Captains. Urahara, Isshin and Yoruichi... three out of thirteen. Gone. Just like that. Also, where the hell is the apparent royal family of SS (again, particularly now with SS in such turmoil), according to that info book? Are the four noble families the last remnants of these royals... or is there some ultra-fortified SS equivalent of Caer Paravel sitting somewhere, apparently completely oblivious or ambivalent to the troubles of their lessers?

Utikake & SHunsui. the Pretty-boy pacifists.

[mrs-urahara.livejournal.com]

"Humans - with the proper medical treatment and facilities - don't suffer from tuberculosis anymore. How is it one of the mighty and apparently oldest of the Death Gods has perpetually suffered from it? How does that even work?"
--it IS bafflin considering that they have a 4th squad that can heal even a captain on the verge of death from fatal wounds. The only thing i can think of has to do with something Kenpachi said about Reitsu. And, that "wounds" come as a result of someone's reitsu overcoming another, thereby procuring a wound. Hence, why Kenpachi never got hurt and wounds don't affect him. Maybe, seeing what Utikake has is a HUMAN condition, there is no cure for it in soul society? And, he seems to have it pretty severly..with the coughing of blood. Is that not one of the last stages? I just can't figure that one out.

"considering how fubar Soul Society is, especially after the Aizen shake-up? It could be that laissez-faire / bordering-pacifist mentality may not pass anymore."
--yeh. i think so. But, a part of me feels like Shunsui and Utikake will do whatever it takes to avoid the non-viloent path. However, when you see Utikake fight the hollow that converges with Kaien..it seems that he can be brought to act, when their IS no other recourse. I wonder, to some degree, if that is why he gave Ichigo the "license". I feel like Utikake and Shunsui would rather work things and figure it out on a more diplomatic level, leaving the fighting to the younger ones and stepping in only as an ultimatum. With Aizen, however, you are right, they cannot simply work on that level anymore, when reason has gone two sheets to the wind. Aizen is a formidable enemy and will not be easy taken down with a passifist approach.

"Also, where the hell is the apparent royal family of SS (again, particularly now with SS in such turmoil), according to that info book? "
--NANI?????? what INFO BOOK?????? I want one! never heard of it.
but you know, now that you said that...I think this ties in with Ichigo being a prince and the real past about Isshin and Masaki. It's gotta be. ALSO, when i was revisiting the fight of Byakuya vs. Ichigo, Byakuya gave these hints that i never noticed before. (now, my wording is not going to be exact here, so forgive me) Byakuya, was in disbelief, when Ichigo said he should use his bankai. Byakuya said it was impossible for anyone to reach bankai in that short amount of time, and if so, it is only truly prophesied amongst the noble houses that someone who can acheive bankai at that level only comes around once every several generations.

then..it hit me....does this not ALLUDE that there IS something MORE to Ichigo than being a hollow/shin hybrid? would this not relegate the theories of either Isshin or Masaki belonging to one of the royal houses?

Re: Utikake & SHunsui. the Pretty-boy pacifists.

[eido.livejournal.com]

it IS bafflin considering that they have a 4th squad that can heal even a captain on the verge of death from fatal wounds.

And Orihime... whatever or however her abilities work. Yet Ukitake still suffers. What the hell?

The only thing i can think of has to do with something Kenpachi said about Reitsu. And, that "wounds" come as a result of someone's reitsu overcoming another, thereby procuring a wound. Hence, why Kenpachi never got hurt and wounds don't affect him. Maybe, seeing what Utikake has is a HUMAN condition, there is no cure for it in soul society?

I suppose that could be more of Kubo's irony. Ukitake is arguably one of the most humane of all the Captains... yet suffers from an ailment that would have easily killed any human in the Edo era... either they be peasantry or royalty. Maybe Ukitake represents the compassion and kindness of Soul Society... but the perpetual illness is utterly debilitating (illness = corruption, negligence or any of SS's major flaws), but yet still alive (i.e., Soul Society's heart hasn't died yet, but it has been considerably weakened over the years). This is entirely my own fangirly speculation, but if I'm right and Soul Society is to ultimately be saved by outsiders (i.e. Ichigo & friends) and forging alliances with other supernatural beings... and Ukitake represents SS's compassion/heart... then it's likely going to be someone from the outside who finally rids him of his TB. Either Orihime or another superpowered being. I want Ukitake to live damn it, LIVE!!

And, he seems to have it pretty severly..with the coughing of blood. Is that not one of the last stages?

And he was coughing up blood way back when Kaien got killed. One might even wonder how he's managed to stay alive this long.

NANI?????? what INFO BOOK?????? I want one! never heard of it.

I believe I first read elusions of some SS Royal Family in _debbiechan_'s lj from "Souls" (aka, the info book). You can DL RAW copies of the book at some of the primary "Bleach" sites out there, Bleach 7 (http://www.bleach7.com/) has it, for example. I DLed the book myself and there's a family tree which divides SS in two major factions, one being the Royals and the other Central 46 (which breaks up into it's many subdivisions, Gotei 13 to name one).

but you know, now that you said that...I think this ties in with Ichigo being a prince and the real past about Isshin and Masaki.

I had an idea Isshin may have been a bastard son of a high level royal... thus why he may have been a Captain, yet not in the Royal Guard. This is pure conjecture on my part... but IF the royals aren't in the picture because they may have been executed or simply dissolved long ago... their could be secret royals amongst those in Rukongai or Seiretei. Isshin - as this hypothetical illegitimate heir - would be one of them.

For the record, I've been speculating Rukia's true lineage as well. Kubo seems to be treading very carefully in concerns to Rukia's background.

Re: Utikake & SHunsui. the Pretty-boy pacifists.

[mrs-urahara.livejournal.com]

the whole Utikake thing i guess goes under the header of "artistic license" heh-heh

"Ukitake is arguably one of the most humane of all the Captains...but yet still alive".
*grabs tissue* *sniffles* OMG! now you did it..before Utikake was just a white-haired SMEXY Sweet GOD..now...now...*sniffles* UGH! uGH! i love him even more. I totally feel the same way with what you said! He is a symbol and just *blows nose* the BEST. I, too, hope that someone is able to cure his illness...and it will be someone from the outside..maybe..a new love? c'mon KUBO-SAN! Saitisfy our fangurl fantasies and dreams! *sniffles*

"And he was coughing up blood way back when Kaien got killed. One might even wonder how he's managed to stay alive this long."
--it's the miracle of negligent science. heh-heh.

"DL RAW copies of the book "
--so it's entirely in Japanese. I just started learning Japanese last summer. SO, it's getting pretty good (live near NYC..and my dear friend is Japanese..so we go out to all these japanese places). but, i don't know how long it would take me to translate. is it in Japanese?

My bets are on Isshin or masaki being royalty somehow.

Interesting what you said about Rukia. Though, a part of me feels that the fact Rukia IS in a noble family now, makes me feel like there is not TOO much more to her backstory and more to her life unfolding as now. Example: relationship to BYakuya and Renji, ichigo etc.

neh?

*hugs* can i tell you i have soooo much fun posting with you and Debbie-chan. Especially seeing that we are all "older" fans, too. ^____^

Re: Utikake & SHunsui. the Pretty-boy pacifists.

[eido.livejournal.com]

but, i don't know how long it would take me to translate. is it in Japanese?

It's all in Japanese.

My bets are on Isshin or masaki being royalty somehow.

Hell, even if it turns out Isshin is the Shinigami royal... and Masaki is still Quincy, are we certain the Quincy don't have their own kind of royalty? If they did... heee, poor Ishida. Ichigo could outrank him. Then again, I suppose (if he survives) he could come to not mind that so much. Ishida has always struck me as a knight or samurai figure, loyal to a greater power / King, but not the regent himself. Probably thanks to all his Quincy outfits strongly bringing to mind the Knights Templar (Ishida is also apparently a samurai name according to this post (http://community.livejournal.com/soul_society/330097.html?thread=10753905#t10753905) at soul_society).

Interesting what you said about Rukia. Though, a part of me feels that the fact Rukia IS in a noble family now, makes me feel like there is not TOO much more to her backstory

I don't know, as I've said, it does seem Kubo is being purposefully clandestine regarding Rukia's genetic/spiritual origins. Someone tried to breakdown the etymology of Rukia's name in Kanji and apparently, compared to most of the primary characters of "Bleach", hers is the one least divulging of any kind of hint about her character. It's also a rather odd name in Japanese (best bet is the name isn't even Japanese at all).

In this name etymology (http://community.livejournal.com/soul_society/330097.html) posted at soul_society, someone speculated "Rukia" may in actuality be a name of Latin origin - Lucia - but pronounced with an "r" due to the lack of the "L" sound in the Japanese language. Lucia is Latin for "light".

Kuchiki, as we also know, is not her original surname. Her real surname Kubo has (rather noticably) yet to give the slightest hint. Of course, in that Rukia seemed to be an orphan, that kind of automatically leaves one to question her true origins. A rather prevalent habit with fictional protagonist orphans, especially in fantasy epics. Of course, if Rukia did originate from royalty, that would ironically render Byakuya's struggle with his "parental vow" utterly void. Rukia, in theory, could be even a greater royal rank than him (as Arthur ultimately outranked his adopted guardian Sir Ector).

Rukia's zanpakuto is also intriguing. Seemingly (purposefully as it would seem) put in direct contrast to Ichigo's pure black bankai. Rukia's is pure white. Which isn't really surprising I suppose... Rukia and Ichigo have had that Yin/Yang dynamic from the very beginning.

Re: Utikake & SHunsui. the Pretty-boy pacifists.

[mrs-urahara.livejournal.com]

It is really wild how kubo does have Rukia and Ichigo's zanpakatous be polar opposites, being a sybolism of yin and yang. They have had that aspect of their relationship from the beginning.

and, interesting about Rukia's name being akin to Lucia. My name also means light. LIght of the people. When you told me that, i could SEE rukia being Lucia. Also, plays up to that fascination Kubo seems to have with spanish words and names. neh?

^___^

Re: Utikake & SHunsui. the Pretty-boy pacifists.

[eido.livejournal.com]

Byakuya, was in disbelief, when Ichigo said he should use his bankai. Byakuya said it was impossible for anyone to reach bankai in that short amount of time, and if so, it is only truly prophesied amongst the noble houses that someone who can acheive bankai at that level only comes around once every several generations.

There have been several implications towards Ichigo being royalty or at least an elite of some kind. Everything from Byakuya's incredulity at his Ichi achieving Bankai so quickly (on that note, one could wonder about Urahara as well), Orihime's silly fantasies of Prince Ichi in foofy outfits (Orihime's name consisting of "Princess"... Ichigo's reincarnated sister, mother or wife? In that they incidentally have very similar hair, I'd suggest them coming from the same house, i.e, Ori as a reincarnated sister, maybe twin), Rukia being labelled "Princess of Rukongai" by some of her classmates (after being adopted by the Kuchiki clan), Anti-Ichigo referring to Ichi as "King" (there's also the Richard III parallels in the recent manga chapter).

There's also a mess of random, detail-oriented things about Ichi that could be hints towards a royal, namely Kingly, status. Even in Western parallels.... Ichi's leonine colored hair and his prevalence with lions (Kon, his sister saved by a lion-like ghost cat, etc) could be a parallel with the King of the Beasts (the lion is often the symbol of / strongly associated with many royal families throughout history), Aslan, shout-out to the famous British king, Richard the Lionhearted... the list goes on. Ichi pulling his zanpakuto from a box could be a parallel to the famous Arthurian tale of the sword pulled from the stone (thus proving Arthur as the one true king of England). Also ironic "Zangetsu" and "Zanpakuto" should have the same kanji in the first part of their names ("Zangetsu", king of all zanpakuto? Reflecting legendary swords such as Excalibur, Durandal or Kusanagi).

There are many specs out there about Zangetsu (the old man in black) as well... possibly the original king of Soul Society (the first Shinigami?) reincarnated as a sword-spirit within Ichigo.

then..it hit me....does this not ALLUDE that there IS something MORE to Ichigo than being a hollow/shin hybrid? would this not relegate the theories of either Isshin or Masaki belonging to one of the royal houses?

Another interesting spec is Masaki - a human - being an illegitimate product of (or descended from) some secret, forbidden (Royal?)Shinigami / Human union. If Ichigo is SS royalty, one could automatically expect it coming from dad since he has been revealed as a Shinigami (a powerful one at that)... yet it would be the kicker his specialness comes from his mother, not his father. Yet... I am still more inclined to my Quincy idea (only if for the reason - and wandering back to topic ;) - I seem to be finding more and more possible intriguing hints of a Quincy connection directly with Ichigo / his family and my perpetual belief of alterior Central 46 motives behind the Quincy genocide).

Re: Utikake & SHunsui. the Pretty-boy pacifists.

[mrs-urahara.livejournal.com]

"There's also a mess of random, detail-oriented things about Ichi that could be hints towards a royal, namely Kingly, status. Even in Western parallels.... "
-- yeh, i was thinking that. I am sure Kubo-san was influenced by stories like these. And, the Japanese have a fascination for western culture. ^____^
on an aside, funny thing about Arthur. (being half-scots, i love to tell this tale)..My uncle has a PhD in scottish History, and when i was home last (UGH!! it's been over a year and a half now!), he was telling me that there is all this excavation and archelogical digs happening in oh! CRAP! where was it now.... i think around Dumbarton/stirling (where some of my family resides now)...he was telling me that many arthurian historians/researches are NOW speculating and believe that camelot was ACTUALLY in SCOTLAND> (awwwww yeah!)i'll ask him about it, when i chat with him next. Of course, he'll go on for hours.

"There are many specs out there about Zangetsu (the old man in black) as well... possibly the original king of Soul Society (the first Shinigami?) reincarnated as a sword-spirit within Ichigo."
-- wow. i never knew that. was that in some of the earlier threads in LJ SS? that would be sooo cool! and, going back to the whole Arthurian thing...he does act like a merlin for Ichigo....or would that be urahara? heh=heh.
speaking of Zangetsu ... I really miss him! I am hoping he is going to make a comeback within the next couple of chapters. he's a great character.

"yet it would be the kicker his specialness comes from his mother, not his father."
-- i actually think that would be more of Kubo-san's MO. At some point, Ichigo is going to see that his shinigami ability (not directly) was inherited from his dad. I could see the other part of his powers coming from his Mum, and, again seeing this has a "coming of age" flava to it, Isshin may be waiting for THAT time to tell his son the truth of his roots.

I think the QUincy speculation could be TIED in with the notion of Ichigo being royalty. Again, it could be that Masaki was a quincy and did not know it. AND, if Isshin were from a "royal" line, just like BYakuya, his union with Masaki would have been forbidden. It could just add onto the layer of our on-going quincy dissertation. ;P

Re: Utikake & SHunsui. the Pretty-boy pacifists.

[eido.livejournal.com]

i never knew that. was that in some of the earlier threads in LJ SS?

It's appeared on some Bleach message boards with general specs about Zangetsu a couple times.

he does act like a merlin for Ichigo....or would that be urahara?

Urahara and Zangetsu have both played the sensei/master character for Ichi. More still, it was Urahara who helped awaken the true nature of Zangetsu for Ichi.

For some reason, Zangetsu reminds me a lot of the Arthur figure in Susan Cooper's The Dark is Rising sequence. Ichigo as somewhere between Bran or Will. I've often thought the zanpakuto were powerful spirits reincarnated in the way they were due to past sins or hubris of some kind that they're knowingly trying to make amends, find Dharma or whatever you want to call it. Zangetsu seems almost willingly trapped in a way. Consigned yet unhappy about his fate, but will do all in his power to help Ichigo. It seems characters like that are always carrying some kind of massive regret. The wisened, powerful old mentor (the Merlin to Arthur, the Obi-Wan to Luke Skywalker, Hamlet's father, etc etc) with the tarnished past who strives to push their liege forward.

I think the QUincy speculation could be TIED in with the notion of Ichigo being royalty. Again, it could be that Masaki was a quincy and did not know it.

Again, that could tie into the Ichigo / Christ parallels. Mary was a descendant of David. Masaki was a Quincy?

Now after watching ep73, I'm even more curious about Kariya and Yoshino's past together... and in regards to Uryuu.

Ichigo & Uryuu

[mrs-urahara.livejournal.com]

"Consigned yet unhappy about his fate, but will do all in his power to help Ichigo. It seems characters like that are always carrying some kind of massive regret. The wisened, powerful old mentor (the Merlin to Arthur, the Obi-Wan to Luke Skywalker, Hamlet's father, etc etc) with the tarnished past who strives to push their liege forward."

---sooo right!

oh, and i have been rewatching the series from the start...made me think about what you said with the a[[earance of Ishida. I started to really see urahara's REACTION to the whole thing in a new light. There was something in his demeanor that you KNEW he had some hand in the whole Ishida VS Ichigo. Not to mention, you wonder if in some way, he KNEW that Ishida would be have to be the one to sorta instegate Ichigo's abilities and heighten his powers. Also, I was re-reading the chapters in the manga with Isshin and Urahara. I'll post that seperately. SOOO interesting!!

Luv these conversations with you!

^___^

Re: Ichigo & Uryuu

[eido.livejournal.com]

oh, and i have been rewatching the series from the start...made me think about what you said with the a[[earance of Ishida. I started to really see urahara's REACTION to the whole thing in a new light.

Urahara (his reactions, motives, intelligence, experiments/projects, exile, etc) are so often the crux of a lot of the questions / suspicions I have surrounding most of the characters and plot. It seems like no matter how often I think about things, I always somehow come back to Urahara. I still don't think his ultimate intents are necessarily malevolent, but ... I can't help but shake that he may be behind a whole lot of whatever is going on in the greater plot.

There was something in his demeanor that you KNEW he had some hand in the whole Ishida VS Ichigo.

Had Ishida not been there, Ichigo may very well have died. Convenient, eh? As you noted of course, it's also Ishida's bait that started the contest between him and Ichi (although Ishida notices that his bait couldn't have attracted that many Hollows. Something we haven't had a sufficient answer to as yet. It's very possible they were attracted to the Hogyoku inside of Rukia and/or Ichigo's bizarrely massive reiatsu, but nothing definitive was ever stated about it).

Not to mention, you wonder if in some way, he KNEW that Ishida would be have to be the one to sorta instegate Ichigo's abilities and heighten his powers.

And the incident didn't only heighten Ichi's powers, but awoke Orihime's and Chad's as well. Again, there's Urahara to collect both after their powers were unleashed and left them exhausted ... it's certainly possible he followed their reiatsu, but like so many things with him, I doubt it's something so simple.

Also, I was re-reading the chapters in the manga with Isshin and Urahara. I'll post that seperately. SOOO interesting!!

Can't wait. ;)

Re: Ichigo & Uryuu

[mrs-urahara.livejournal.com]

"I still don't think his ultimate intents are necessarily malevolent, but ... I can't help but shake that he may be behind a whole lot of whatever is going on in the greater plot."
--TOTALLY!! I was thinking how, you could probably re-read the manga from the entire perspective of Urahara. YOu can think..what's he thinking? what's he planning? and, again, it REALLY hit me when i re-read the chapters with Isshin and Urahara...also makes me think..you could ALSO re-read the manga from the beginning from ISsshin's POV>

"very possible they were attracted to the Hogyoku inside of Rukia "
--YOu know...it COULD very possibly be. If you think, how Aizen said he KNEW what Urahara did the minute Rukia re-surfaced..and with Aizen's PREVIOUS connections with the hollows (i.e. he created the ones that could not be detected and the kind that engulfed Kaien). Aizen COULD have forseeably used the Gillians to try to get to Rukia.

"Again, there's Urahara to collect both after their powers were unleashed and left them exhausted ... it's certainly possible he followed their reiatsu, but like so many things with him, I doubt it's something so simple."
--WIth URahara...its NEVER simple..neh?

Re: Ichigo & Uryuu

[eido.livejournal.com]

it REALLY hit me when i re-read the chapters with Isshin and Urahara...also makes me think..you could ALSO re-read the manga from the beginning from ISsshin's POV

Or even Ryuuken's POV, maybe. ::needs hot pappa (with tons of secrets) icons::

Re: Ichigo & Uryuu

[mrs-urahara.livejournal.com]

"Or even Ryuuken's POV, maybe. ::needs hot pappa (with tons of secrets) icons::"

oh yessh. DEFINITELY Hotpappa with secrets...a must. ^___^

THe royal SS and the 4 Clans

[mrs-urahara.livejournal.com]

i think with regards to this Royal SS and the four noble clans..it seems that the Kuchiki clan is really the only still functioning. SaiFong talked about the "tragic demise" of the Shiba clan and Yoruichi's clan, which most likely disbanned after Yoruichi disappeared. SHe was teh heir apparent. Yet, I STILL wonder why and how Utikake has the seal from the Shouuin clan. that baffles me. I know we have asked that same question before.

as far as that ROyal SS...my theory is that there four noble houses were under the umbrella of the SS (kinda like the Queen has her "offspring" rule over certain territories)....Hitsugaya explains the four different factions that comprise soul society's central 46..which, i think acts as their parliament. That said, there may have been nobles from the four houses that ruled in each, some time ago. IN parliament, you get instant access ifyou are of royal blood.

Now, if there was an internal power struggle, the 4 noble families could have disbanned from the SS royal umbrella, deciding to l govern under their own provences outside the juristiction of the Royal SS family. Which, may explain why the Shiba clan had their demise, Yoruichi's clan became more of a secret service sect and the Kuchiki's became the "judicial" branch of the royal clans..leaving this other one as a mystery. I also found it interesting that the central 46 are comprised of four different factions, which could have been remnants of the attributes of the 4 clans. it's all very interesting...i could delve into it more, but i am only limited to the manga volumes...
I NEED that book!! heehee.
hmmm....that's a good topic.

[mrs-urahara.livejournal.com]

hello!!! O M G! I JUST noticed the two screencaps below. (i have phone modem sometimes it takes FOHEVAH for pics to download).

i thought it was weird too how Ichigo's quilt is the opposite of the QUincy outfit. ANd, KAWAIINA! Ishida doing needlepoint. gah!

[eido.livejournal.com]

i thought it was weird too how Ichigo's quilt is the opposite of the QUincy outfit.

And, you know, a lot of folks discuss the seemingly prevalent Quincy trait of self-sacrifice and all their messianic / Christ parallels. Thus a lot of folks have Ishida-kun understandably marked for death... yet looking at that screencap above from ep7, it really does make me wonder (the cross, his arms splayed out like that, the towel over his eyes looks like a blindfold). Then again, in that I do spec Ichigo being half-Quincy... that could easily be where that self-sacrificing/messianic trait comes from. ;)

I'd also been wondering, if Ichi is indeed half-Quincy, that may explain his ever-increasing surges of power (often when he seems to be at his weakest and/or he's about to lose). Quincy and Shinigami are essentially opposites to each other regarding spiritual power... one takes it from the external (Quincy), the other from internal (Shinigami). Could Ichi be doing both? Ichi is both a massively powerful Shinigami, c/o inheriting his father's massive power.... yet he can also possibly render his opponents weaker by draining their spiritual power (c/o abilities inherited from his mother), but this ability only comes forth unconciously and in utter desperation (when the battle is nearly lost)? His opponents not even realizing their spirit power is being drained... so as the battle rages on, Ichi makes his opponent weaker while he gets stronger and stronger? However, the balance between Shinigami and Quincy abilities is still too unstable in Ichi... and thus in some of those desperate circumstances, the Hollow in Ichi comes forth?

IF, of course, that's a Hollow at all and not some other being. I'd had wondered if Anti-Ichigo may not be a Hollow (or if he is, he's not a Hollow in the truest sense), but something like a Hollow-puppet. A creation of Ichigo's subconscious to hide his Quincy power-draining abilities? To an opponent, Anti-Ichigo feels and looks in every sense like a Hollow, but in reality he's merely a distraction? Anti-Ichigo emerges with a wild, unpredictable, powerful fighting style... unsettling the opponent so much they don't realize their reiatsu is being drained? Thus if they survive Anti-Ichigo... they're still - entirely unknowingly - rendered considerably weaker due to Ichi's secret Quincy reiatsu-draining abilities?

[mrs-urahara.livejournal.com]

"Thus a lot of folks have Ishida-kun understandably marked for death.."
--say that is not so! i don't think kubo-san will let one of the fangurl charaters die. neh?
so help me, if Utikake kicks it...just because of his "tuberculosis"...so help me......

"...However, the balance between Shinigami and Quincy abilities is still too unstable in Ichi... and thus in some of those desperate circumstances, the Hollow in Ichi comes forth?"
--hmmm...all your speculations could be true. Yet, if you remember, when ichi was fighting that Menos Grande, he got this power surge he could not control, and the only one who could DRAIN his power was Uryuu. SO, i think that if he were half quincy there would be a constant draining of his reiatsu, neh? either that, OR because he has not "awakened" his quincy side...he does not have something to stabilise the energy.
i would just figure that being half-quincy would naturally be akin to Kenpachi's "patch" that constantly drains his reiatsu, because he has so much it is uncontained. If ichigo were a quincy, it would, conceivably drain his too. and maybe, it's when he DISCARDS the quincy side of himself that he has those power surges.

hmmmm....

[megaminoeien.livejournal.com]

Since I'm really out of it right now, I'm just gonna say this: this Masaki/Quincy explination would make helluvalot better filler eps than the Bound Arc. As a bonus, there's no need to make Uryuu into a wuss in this scenario.

[mrs-urahara.livejournal.com]

you are soooo right. I am really getting worried about the fillers. THe whole thing with Kariya wanting to go to Heco Mundo just really killed me. THere is just no reason. Also, the whole explanation by Mariyu going on about the bounds wanting the quincy POWER...when, ishida clearly doesn't have any..so why would they want him that badly anyhoo?

NOT TO MENTION: HELLLOOOOO....the video-footage that was supposed to be VERY VERY OLD?? I mean, if they are in the HUMAN world, and this say..happpened in the 1700s ....who the HELL has a camcorder??? i was like ..oh no. they didn't.

*sighs* i am really worrying about the direction. you know...i am soo upset about it all....i think i have to put a seperate post now in my journal and see what everyone else thinks.

i just hope they get back to the manga .. . .SOOON!!!!!

btw: i LOVED my discussions here with Eido-chan we really gutted some things apart. it was soo fun!!

[eido.livejournal.com]

you are soooo right. I am really getting worried about the fillers. THe whole thing with Kariya wanting to go to Heco Mundo just really killed me.

Totally fanwanky spec here, but I'd wondering about Kariya's desire to go to Hueco Mundo and reasons behind it (since it does seem pretty much out of no where with zero explanation as yet).... What if he feels compelled or drawn to Hueco Mundo? Like the Pied Piper luring the village children. And Aizen is the Pied Piper. I could be watching too much "Doctor Who" and time travel storylines, but I'd actually pondered if Aizen created the Bound (and also, possibly, the Quincy). He created the Bound / Quincy, then spread them across time and all over the Earth. Bound were possibly the first versions, the Quincy the second. Thus, in a way, Bound are basically rough, early versions of Quincy... that's why they might "want" the Quincy powers. The Quincy are the perfect versions of the Bound (thus, in theory, more capable of opening the pathway into the Hueco Mundo and fulfill this speculated destiny "God" intended for them and that they feel compelled to complete).

Uryuu mentions in ep78 (something we've got elusions to before, but nothing definitive if I recall correctly) that Quincy were bestowed their powers "from God". Well, Aizen is essentially God is he not (or so he likes to claim)? He alone "stands in Heaven". Not that I think Uryuu or the Quincy knowingly worshipped Aizen. I do think Uryuu genuinely believes his powers come from the God (I'm guessing the Anglo-Christian "God", father of Jesus, yada yada). However, the "God" that truly gave the Quincy their powers is the (false) "God" Aizen. Although funny Kubo's answer to the Quincy "God" is totally batshit insane and evil. heee

Why did Aizen create the Quincy/Bound? I'd spec them as possible keys to bust open the barrier between Hueco Mundo and the mortal world.

NOT TO MENTION: HELLLOOOOO....the video-footage that was supposed to be VERY VERY OLD?? I mean, if they are in the HUMAN world, and this say..happpened in the 1700s ....who the HELL has a camcorder??? i was like ..oh no. they didn't.

heee!! I guess Sony has further reach then any of us realized!! ;)

[mrs-urahara.livejournal.com]

i totally understand your logic and speculation. it is an interesting "fanwacky" spec (luv the word btw)
Yet, i don't think aizen will be their "god" for the only reason that it would TRULY inflict great damagae to the manga storyline. Kubo-san has not picked back up from where he left off with the ishida/ryuuken training storyline...so, we don't really know what 'secrets' would be revealed from there. and, i think it is a little too convenient for everything to be under Aizen's domain. it's almost like evryone depending on Ichigo to "save the day". it becomes trite.
even in this filler, are you not a little bored and actually put off by the fact that they ARE trying to connect it to Hueco Mundo? it just seems off.

and....
"heee!! I guess Sony has further reach then any of us realized!! ;)"
---that is just too funny!!!

[megaminoeien.livejournal.com]

A CAMCORDER? In the 1700's? Are you freaking kidding me? Unless they live so long because they can manipulate time, that makes no sense at all. I hope the person who stuck that in got fired.

I haven't posted all of my predictions for the series yet, but this his partially what I think about the Bound arc and the supposedly "canon" pairings within it: http://megaminoeien.livejournal.com/

Sorry, I'm just too lazy to repeat myself ^^; (three times, at least)

[mrs-urahara.livejournal.com]

will check it out. ^___^