new fandom + the quincy key

[retro_eidas]

Just when I can't possibly be barraged with yet another fandom... another comes along of course. Within a few months, "Firefly" infected me like the plague. Then SGA came along. The newest edition to obsessive-compulsive speculating insanity? Bleach. For the non-otaku and/or minus a DLing fetish, you might not be familiar with this slice of fanon and thus this entry will mean absolutely nothing. However, it's the current hot item in anime... and my soul is all but it's bitch at the moment.

Also special thanks to new friends _debbiechan_ and mrs_urahara that propagate the :cough:hot Quincy:cough: speculating madness. Since I can't seem to join a fandom without being able to nerdily speculate about it ad infinitum, I'm not sure these poor folks realize what they've gotten themselves into. If either of you bother to read this, I apologize. A lot of it will be retread from bits of our "Significant Filler" discussion over at soul_society.

"The person who will protect this era... A Quincy is this key person." (not verbatim)
Oh the ridiculous amount of questions that statement has made for me... but it makes the sad, sad fangirl tingly in more naughty parts than I'd care to admit.

What exactly did Yoshino mean by a Quincy being "the key to save this era"? How do the Bound know this piece of information? Sounds like the makings of an impending prophecy reveal to me. Ishida part of some massive Bound prophecy... or just a prophecy in general? Something not necessarily limited to the Bound? Ryuuken? Souken? The Quincy (at least prior their genocide)? Perhaps more importantly (and scarily), the Shinigami?

Entirely hypotheticaly speaking... if the (or some... I'd say, Aizen and probably some or all of deceased Central 46) of the Shinigami are aware of this speculated prophecy regarding the Quincy and if the nature of the prophecy were threatening/apocalyptic/universe-altering/etc etc enough... What kind of precautions might they have taken? We already know now what they're capable of regarding those damn obstinate Quincy, so stubborn and proud to the point of imbalancing and threatening the end of the world they had to be permanently removed from the equation (or so we're told)... could they be capable of much more? Taking a look at Aizen, Gin and Mayuri... or hell, even those with 'good' intentions as Tousen, Yamamoto, Hinamori, Urahara and Byakuya... I'm truthfully afraid of the full extent of things they're capable of (whether it's willfully or unintentionally... by duty, honor, curiosity, misplaced justice or manipulation). Whatever their intentions. Who watches the Watchmen, indeed.

Was Mayuri purely satisfying his own insatiably sick curiousity regarding all his (apparently, mass amounts of) Quincy experiments? Or was there something more to it than that? Was he also going by orders? Orders from whom?

Was the Quincy Extermination of 200 years ago really unavoidable? Furthermore, if the extermination was such a "hard" decision as Rukia was told (via Urahara presumedly)... why or how did Mayuri get access to desecrate so many (I believe the number ranged around 1600+) Quincy for the sake of his experiments? Was he just that sly he could abscond with that many souls and go unnoticed? He doesn't seem to take much tact in keeping the Quincy experiments a secret if they're supposed to be secret (hell, he apparently carried around a memento on his person of at least one of the his favorite test subjects... Uryuu's grandfather/sensei, Souken) and he was talking about said experiments openly in Soul Society. Cpt. Kyouraku's departing comments to him in ep71 would also make me lean towards Mayuri's hobbies not necessarily secrets (and what does Kyouraku and possibly the other Shinigami know exactly about those hobbies?). I do unfortunately find it hard to believe the Shinigami didn't have some general idea what was happening to those Quincy. If Ryuuken has any kind of fuel in reigniting Uryuu's hatred of the Death Gods, this probably would be his coup de grace.

In regards to the above paragraph... one could speculate every action Ryuuken has taken was in part of some greater purpose, one that he believes (as did Souken?) is destined for Uryuu.

What exactly did Urahara do that was so bad that led to his exile from Soul Society? Particularly considering some of Mengele-taicho's hobbies (and he isn't only still partaking in said hobbies, but is the current 12th Division Captain. The frickin' promoted him. Jesus). What did he do that was so much worse than what Mayuri has done/is doing? Sure the Hogyoku could be bad enough. However... I do wonder if Mayuri has friends in very high places. He may not have ascended into HellHeaven a la Aizen, but another compadre perhaps?

I'm also wondering if Urahara's exile was so involuntary as it sounds. The word "exile" tends to exclaim 'involuntary', of course and I don't doubt it was completely serious and all forcible on the part of Shinigami's ruling body ... but I can't help but wonder just a little 'self-imposed' might factor in as well? Ditto Tessai (who I'd bet anything was Urahara's koutaicho), Yoriuchi and Isshin. I mean to say, Urahara might not have completely regretted leaving. Urahara, possibly Tessai, Yoriuchi and Isshin... all were in *high* positions of power. Until they were just... not anymore. Could it be they may have learned some very dirty and very ugly secrets about SS and wanted to leave (in utter moral disagreement and possibly in fear of their lives. Loose lips sink hellheaven-bound ships, after all)? Yoruichi took it all a step further and was apparently all but *dead* to the Shinigami for a CENTURY. Since I don't follow the manga as closely as I probably should... I'd guess Isshin also possibly faked his death (my guess? Kenpachi believes he'd killed him. Isshin just screams former 11th Division taicho to me).

And on an entirely unrelated venue... what the hell is Cpt. Komamura? Unfortunate recipient of a high level demon spell gone bad? Youkai? Possibly more likely, a hanyou (he seems to have a similar sort of shame/angst as young Inuyasha did. Consequence of a taboo youkai/human union... and made to feel that way most of his life, up until meeting Commander Yamamoto and Tousen)?

Comments

[http://users.livejournal.com/_debbiechan_/]

she might have killed herself (even when she smiled she seemed like she was crying... manic depressive?).

No, I think Uryuu was remembering a "tragic sadness" or forethought of some sort. I think she'll me martyred as a good woman, not an insane or unreliable one--after all, she's URYUU'S MOM! :-D

I'm also slightly curious about Inoue's parents. Hollow!Sora's angsty proclamation that they abandoned them (leaving him to raise Orihime alone) seemed a tad anvilicious at the time... perhaps something we needed to remember for future reference?

Sora and Inoue's parents being alive out there is really annoying, isn't it? Maybe Kubo meant it as one of those tragedies to never be resolved--although part of me expects some sort of afternoon special "Orihime Finds Her Birth Mom."

Unfortunately, I can't recall at the moment how far back Miyako and Kaien died (I want to say it was 50 years prior the start of the events of ep1, but I'm not even sure where I'm getting that number).

I have that number in my head too, from where I don't know either. I'm certain it was mentioned in the manga.

There is at least a straggling possibility even in current canon - barring the significant supernatural elements to both characters and living in the same town - they might have known each other. Both are medical practitioners...

Doesn't Isshin, in a very early chapter, say something along the lines of "give me the director of Karakura hospital?" Can't remember if it's when Chad is injured or a flashback when Sora is brought to the hospital... in any case, I just KNOW those two know one another. Isshin and Ryuuken! I have a weakness for crack fiction that pairs them as a yaoi couple--they are such an unlikely pair.

The Shinigami's abundant use of Demon Magic also baffles me somewhat. When or how did they learn it? I suppose that could be one of those things that we may never find out or need to, but ... with Cpt. Komamura lurking around and Aizen with his god complex (wanting to "stand in Heaven")? I am wondering if youkai are something "Bleach" isn't going to touch or it's only a matter of time before we have talking dragons or giant wolves and such flying about.

I took that stuff for granted--we have Hitsugaya's dragon form after all and various references to Eastern archetypes, as well Western ones (will Hell ever be explained? That's what I wanna know!)

As for demon arts, Ichigo doesn't know squat, does he? I like how the demon arts are identified with the older craftier Shinigami (Aizen, Byakuya, Yoruichi) and still that little innocent flower of flowers, Momo.

I don't like Momo, but my guess is that she will play some role in turning Aizen good (yes! I don't think Aizen's all bad! I mean, I've been reading fic about him bedding and raping most of the Bleach cast, but I think he may really have some intellectual stake in the universe--like, I'm the smartest, therefore I should solve its problems)

Blurry-eyed now!
Good night!

[eido.livejournal.com]

Sora and Inoue's parents being alive out there is really annoying, isn't it? Maybe Kubo meant it as one of those tragedies to never be resolved--although part of me expects some sort of afternoon special "Orihime Finds Her Birth Mom."

Although knowing this show, it probably would be more on the lines of "Orihime's mom finds her... and tries to suck out her soul, slice her in half, hits on her or ::insert whatever lasciviousness here::"

I just KNOW those two know one another. Isshin and Ryuuken!

With how these old school superpowered folks seem to operate, it honestly would make more sense they at least knew of each other.

I took that stuff for granted--we have Hitsugaya's dragon form after all

When the characters power-up, we also often see demonic manifestations of this power. That could simply be using the demon image as a means to parallel the frightening nature of such massive power, but... I don't know. With, as you said, how many Eastern archetypes have appeared in this show already and youkai/demons being a fairly major archetype (if not in general, then in manga/anime)... ?

And, on another note, the show is absolutely saturated with Buddhist references. Ichigo's Bankai, the repetition of the six spoked image (my guess, it's a possible reference to the six realms of existence which do correspond with the various major factions of the show), reincarnation, etc.

As for demon arts, Ichigo doesn't know squat, does he?

Ichi used flash step when he fought Byakuya, which is classified as part of the demon arts iirc. However, I am kind of confused on what separates zanpakuto or the Shinigami's natural abilities from demon magic exactly. Do Shinigami even have natural abilities seemingly outside of zanpakuto (and even that is rather debatable imo). Which is kind of why I was musing about a possible tie between demons and the zanpakuto... demons themselves partly as origins of the Shinigami themselves (or, at least, their abilities). Something I realize that hasn't been eluded at all in canon (there are no definitive demons in the story yet... even if we do have a fox-headed Shinigami and Hell).

Regarding Ichigo, I do have a funny feeling - Ichi being Super!Ichi after all - he probably will eventually use the demon magic more blatantly (shooting fireballs, bindings, etc) like some of the other Shinigami ... but probably unlike them as well since I'd bet anything he'll be able to do it without all that long-winded chanting. He'll just do it. ::insert a mass of awestruck faces of his incredible demonic power here::

[eido.livejournal.com]

I don't like Momo, but my guess is that she will play some role in turning Aizen good

Truthfully, I have my strong doubts about that. Mostly because Aizen's relationship with Hinamori was so dark and twisted, something like showing her real mercy just isn't feasible in my eyes. Not that I justify what he did, but I can almost see why stabbing her would have been kind in comparison. He thinks it was mercy because he made her so she couldn't live without him and he wasn't about to take her with him, so he was going to kill her (as if she could be used and deposed. An example via the new heavenly father to be made for the other children of Soul Society... yet ironic also in that she was another example of the detrimental nature of obsessive, blind love). It would have probably been mercy though for what she will go through now that Aizen is truly 'gone'. Now she's going to have to face what she did and what Aizen really is. Aizen's utter meglomaniacal perversion also makes the idea of redemption or mercy not so reachable to me. I suppose it's not impossible, but I don't think that's what his character will be about. I see him more as a pure example of the old "absolute power corrupts absolutely" adage. Tousen is kind of the character I see that could ultimately regret his actions (also probably die - likely self-sacrificingly - in a heap of angst and regret for them).

Really scary thing is, I actually see Gin more redeemable than Aizen... because he at least showed something akin to genuine mercy to Rangiku (as children, but also later on when he pulled his sword back from killing Hinamori because Rangiku stepped in the way). Although he wore a mask with a permanent smile on his face, you also always pretty much knew that smile was false and he wasn't someone to be trusted. In other words, he was more honest in his dishonesty. Aizen, on the other hand, had the face of utter trust and benevolence... and that was the biggest farce of them all. Will Gin ever actually seek redemption? That's doubtful, but I do think he has at least a shred more capacity to it than Aizen. Aizen's meglomania is resounding and his whole persona was a facade... and that can never be trusted imo.

I do like Momo, but for the sole reason that she is an utterly tragic character to me, completely blinded to an obsessive, self-destructive love. A dark recurring theme in this show (also in Soi Fong and to a much lesser extent, Orihime. The difference between Soi Fong/Yoruichi & Orihime/Ichigo and Hinamori/Aizen is that Aizen purposefully propagated Momo's obsession... Yoruichi and Ichigo did and are doing it unintentionally). However, it's hard to completely blame Momo for her actions, even the greatest Captains were fooled by Aizen. It was hard, however, to watch her lose all faith in Hitsugaya and I don't blame him for "his current self" not able to speak to her. She was *so* thoroughly tricked by Aizen and *so* utterly convinced of Hitsugaya's culpability... all their life together was thrown away as if it were nothing. That had to hurt (even if Hitsugaya himself had been tricked by Aizen).

[http://users.livejournal.com/_debbiechan_/]

I do like Momo, but for the sole reason that she is an utterly tragic character to me, completely blinded to an obsessive, self-destructive love. A dark recurring theme in this show (also in Soi Fong and to a much lesser extent, Orihime.

oooooh, I could go somewhere with this. *ficcage brain burning*
As for Yoru, she seems too aware to not have some clue of Soi Fong's crush. Of course, in my universe she is an innocent perpetrator of the the crush for having actually slept with the girl. What a trio--Aizen, the manipulator, Yoru, the semi-guilty free spirit, and Ichigo, the clueless!

[eido.livejournal.com]

and Ichigo, the clueless!

I just don't see the grand shippy love the IchiOri folks seem to. At all. Every scenario between them I've come up with in my mind, it ends disastrously... and mostly Orihime gets the really short end of the stick. He'd hurt her. Repeatedly imo. Not really intending to, but doing it anyway. She would probably smother him. Kubo-san is good, but I don't think he can or could ever sell me IchiOri in a any way without one or both coming off OOC. Also that "prince" bit I read in your latest post does... irritate me. Inoue having "Hime" in her name... :vomits in mouth a little:

Orihime is kind of a difficult character for me to like when she's singularly fawning over "Kurosaki-kun"... and it seems like she's always doing that. Thank god for interactions with Tatsuki and Ishida (at least when she's not fawning over Kurosaki-kun around them too). I tend to think those feelings for him are more a hinderance to her as a character than anything. I'd really, really wish she'd get over him and move on. Not just because I prefer the IchiRuki (that I do find much more interesting, IchiOri doesn't even register), but it's almost insulting. A female character - even if she's only 15 and doesn't know better - putting this boy on a pedestal and it defining almost her entire existence? Ick.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_debbiechan_/]

Been Hime, Done THAT! XD! Yes, Orihime's adoration of Ichigo is a feminist's nightmare, but I also think Kubo knows his audience. And irrational crushes are part of what being 15 is about for most girls. I love Orihime--I see her as a very real, flawed character despite what people say about her being "perfect." The Ichigo crush alone--gah!
IchiOri... *chokes*

[eido.livejournal.com]

Yes, Orihime's adoration of Ichigo is a feminist's nightmare, but I also think Kubo knows his audience.

I do think it's telling the IchiRuki comm understandably has about 600 members as does it's fanlisting... and the IchiOri contingent still can't vaguely touch those numbers. Sure it's the internetz and everything here is madness, but ... I don't think those numbers are some fluke.

And irrational crushes are part of what being 15 is about for most girls.

Which is what keeps me hanging on to Orihime's character. Despite some facets of her irritating to me... she is very real. In a frustrating, bordering on "Welcome to the Dollhouse" sort of way (she's just the Playboy Playmate version of Dawn Weiner... and the boobies certainly don't make her any less hard to watch/read at times, for me anyway).

The Ichigo crush alone--gah! IchiOri... *chokes*

Seriously. That crush and the prospect of a relationship between them feels so... claustrophobic to me. I can't really put it into words. Like it would be so much about both Ichi and Ori pretending to be people they're not and not being true to themselves in a very agonizing way ... tantamount to married couples staying together for the kids. Even the vague idea of it coming to fruition? No... just no.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_debbiechan_/]

> I do think it's telling the IchiRuki comm understandably has about 600 members as does it's fanlisting... and the IchiOri contingent still can't vaguely touch those numbers. Sure it's the internetz and everything here is madness, but ... I don't think those numbers are some fluke. <

The Japanese standard manga coupling is submissive girlie and brash boy. But the girls who buy the manga (and there are more and more of them) love Rukia with Ichigo, yes. Orihime appeals to boys. Yes, ick. I do think that a young hip manga-ka has caught on to what GIRLS are becoming and that's why I think he (or his editor) changed his original pairing (so obviously IchiOri in the Bleach manga pilot) and left the universe of possibe pairings wide open--keeps the readers turning the pages and buying the merchandise.

I just adore Orihime, though. The fact that she cooks freaky food (a girl living on her own learns to do that), the fact that she envisions herself as a fire-blasting tank in some mecha future, that she can switch her fantasies from running into a prince's arms to running track and field--she's a modern girl as well as a Magical Girl. And I don't want her with anyone but my Uryuu (after I've finished with him, first, of course. ~.^)

[eido.livejournal.com]

The Japanese standard manga coupling is submissive girlie and brash boy.

:cringes: Don't I know it. There are far too many Hitomi/Van's in otaku land and not enough San/Ashitaka's. However, with the enormous popularity - despite my opinion of how it ended - of "Inuyasha" (and that main couple as antagonistic as a primary couple can get... hell, not even Kikyou - the other woman of the story - was a fangirl by any stretch of the imagination)... I'd really rather hope things are changing from the sad, boring, stereotypical norms. I'd be so disappointed in "Bleach" if it fell in line with the atypical Girly-Girl Fangirl/Loud Shounen Asshole Hero relationship.

I do think that a young hip manga-ka has caught on to what GIRLS are becoming and that's why I think he (or his editor) changed his original pairing (so obviously IchiOri in the Bleach manga pilot)

I heard about the initial IchiOri thing (which is partly why I haven't read the pilot). I really, really hope Kubo has ultimately discarded that notion (I probably should read the pilot anyway just to know what it's about... but if Ori was something originally like a combo of Ori *and* Rukia, but then Rukia became her own character and it was the Rukia element always meant to draw in Ichigo... that I would be fine with).

left the universe of possibe pairings wide open--keeps the readers turning the pages and buying the merchandise.

And Kubo is an evil genius for it. I suppose it still could go IchiOri, not that I'd like it, but it could easily go that way (and if I were more of a yaoi fan than I am I'd be even more irritated at the IchiOri possibility. How much more interested I am in IchiRenji or IchiIshi dynamics than I am IchiOri! I can't even describe) ... or it could go TatsuHime... or IshiHime (go Ishida!)... or ChadHime.

And I don't want her with anyone but my Uryuu (after I've finished with him, first, of course. ~.^)

Oh dude... so much ITA with this. She becomes so much more palatable and interesting to me when she's interacting with Ishida (and not sending Kurosaki withering looks/thoughts) than almost anyone. He's so serious and reasoned and lithe ... she's bubbly and bizarre and curvy. He catches her when she falls and her odd way of seeing things has rubbed off on him in SS and he only looks at her so concerned while Ichi is off fighting/nearly dying for Rukia. Hell... I'd even think IshiHime uberangst would be vastly more interesting than Ori's tiring unrequitted crushing on protagonist brazen superboy.

Picture it... Ishi probably coming back in a blaze of glory - saving a group of nuns from a gaggle of Hollows or something with his restored, massive Quincy powers c/o hot, bastard Quincy Papa - but at school ignoring or being cruel to everyone, namely Inoue (who'd probably be so happy to see him, since she's happy to see any of her friends, especially the estranged ones... but Ishi immediately shutting her down, knowing if he doesn't she'll go on and on). Inoue confused as to why he's acting so cruel and maybe, just maybe, getting somewhat distracted from being Kurosaki junkie for a few seconds because of Ishi's behavior. Dude. That would so rock, even if Ishi acts too much like Ishi the Older. More if we see how it's hurting him to be so ungentlemanly to Inoue or his friends, but feels it has to be. Uryuu, where for art thou?!

the fact that she envisions herself as a fire-blasting tank in some mecha future

Ok, well maybe she's a little like Napoleon Dynamite meets Dawn Weiner meets Playboy Playmate... but she hasn't had her solo Jamiroquai dance yet. She needs her dance (and the tetherball with Ishida by the end damn it!).

[http://users.livejournal.com/_debbiechan_/]

*melts at mention of Napoleon Dynamite and tetherball interaction*

My dorks Hime and Ishi are my number one pairing, always.

[eido.livejournal.com]

yes! I don't think Aizen's all bad! I mean, I've been reading fic about him bedding and raping most of the Bleach cast, but I think he may really have some intellectual stake in the universe--like, I'm the smartest, therefore I should solve its problems

I don't think Aizen believes what he's done was necessarily or exclusively self-serving... I do think, however, he's doing what he's doing because he believes it's better for everyone. I also don't think Soul Society is anywhere so chaste as to look like these totally innocent lambs in comparison to the likes of Aizen. Although the fact Aizen even thinks he's the one to vaguely be put in such a position screams of frightening zealousy. He practically revelled in his manipulation of turning Hinamori into this obsessive worshipper, because I do think he believes himself someone that shouldn't only lead, but should be worshipped. This guiding light that will steer the universe and Soul Society away from it's weakness, corruption or unenlightenment blah di blah. It's God Complex 101. However, he wouldn't be such a compelling villain imo unless he truly believed what he was doing was in some notion of rightness. That's what makes him truly scary, also, probably (at least in my experience), a sort that probably would be extremely difficult and tricky to redeem. He'll probably die wholly believing in that (forcibly imposed) rightness.

And I think I just broke some record in length of reply. Jesus. I think I'll be going to bed now myself before I threaten to really burn your eyesockets out reading all my bullshit.