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anneu53714 yesterday, I've got a nasty bout of the OCD with HHR OTP, so I can't resist putting an addendum to my last entries. It's the H/Hr perspective of my previous Celtic myth ramblings (and I must be crazy to post this on my LJ ::hopes the Ron & R/HR fans on my friends list don't beat me with reeds::)...
Unfortunately Ron, for most of the story, seems like the ignored, maybe even a bit discarded, child. Not maligning Molly Weasley, she has a lot of kids to take care of and couldn't give them all the attention they deserved. She's not superwoman even though she tries to be. Passed over for six older, more accomplished brothers and the youngest Weasley child / only daughter. Hermione has been shown to mother both Ron and Harry quite often and at different stages. This motherly sort of affection could be why Ron seems to react so jealously and possessively of Hermione.... Ron's affection for Hermione is Oedipal. He yearns for motherly affection from any source and Hermione, being the only female in the Trio and has at times been VERY motherly/protective of Harry *and* Ron, he tends to get this sort of affection from Hermione. Not saying there aren't legitimate romantic feelings there, but there's also that (desperate?) yearning for motherly affection too. It's a bit of a jumbled psychological mess, but then it wouldn't be the Trio I love without a nice dose of some complexes. Otherwise, how are we going to get that inevitable JKR angsty conflict which I'm both sadistically salivating for and terrified of at the same time?
This relationship debacle with Hermione would also be in accordance to the Oak King and Holly King myth. The "Earth Mother" in the myth is a triune goddess, she plays the maid (wife), mother and old crone (wise woman / advisor) to the Oak King and Holly King. Her roles change with the passing of the equinoxes. For example... In Spring, she is the wife to the Oak King. In the fall she's the wife to the Holly King. However, in that rebirth is also huge part of the myth (as it is in HP), she's also responsible for giving birth to *both* the Oak and Holly Kings. The Oak King in midsummer and the Holly King in midwinter. One can say that to Harry and Ron, Hermione can be considered wife, mother and crone. However, when at the beginning of the books it might have seemed Hermione may be Ron's "wife"... as the books progress... she turns into his "mother". Hermione may fancy Ron, or she fancied him, but like the changing of the seasons, a teenage girl's heart can be swayed... but that, of course, remains to be seen.
The situation would be opposite for Harry. At the beginning, Hermione seemed more matronly / "crone"-ish (platonic) towards Harry.... but by the end, we're meandering into another season and she becomes Harry's "wife". She passes from one "King" to the other (a la, the Oak and Holly Kings). Although, I personally suspect she may have been harboring romantic feelings for Harry all along (because I'm an H/Hr shipper and I'm crazy-biased like that), it's just that - per a teenage girl with considerably nasty self-esteem issues - she never lets herself imagine she could be with someone like Harry (she puts him above her in a sense even back in PS/SS, "Books and cleverness! There are more important things..."). Harry, who likes pretty, older women who play Quidditch. Yet she also can't stay away from him. She's always there for him and seemingly always has to help him, no matter what sacrifices she has to make (GoF, Helping Harry learn the Accio charm, spending nearly eight hours doing it. Passing over homework, dinner, etc). Even trying to help him with Cho if it made him happy (and at that time, Harry really needed a little happiness), despite her own possible feelings. As far as Hermione knows, Harry doesn't remotely feel for her in that way (and she would know considering how apparently closely she's been observing him all along. Which is rather interesting and slightly disturbing in and of itself. Hermione the stalker?). She doesn't dare proposition him in OotP. Approaching him then might not have only meant a broken heart for her, but awkwardness between them and damaging their friendship. More trouble Harry didn't need. This could cause severe conflict with Ron too. Hermione also must know Ron has feelings for her, even if she may not return them (at least, not like she used to).
Sidenote: As Hermione changes in the passing of the seasons (school terms, in HP), as does her (theoretical) counterpart, Ginny. Ginny (who has many qualities in common with the Spring Maiden, often associated with Persephone. In COS, Beguiled and captured by [Holly King Tom] Hades and taken to the Underworld [Chamber of Secrets] where Hermes [Harry] and/or Mommy Demeter [Harry] had to go rescue her. With a little help from Hecate [Hermione]). The Spring Maiden who fancied the Oak King (Cernunnos) Harry once ... but as the story changes from Spring (Books 2-4) to Fall (Book 5?)... her interest in him has waned (per Hermione's Ginny insights in OotP). This could be false as Hermione isn't always right, but with her dead-on knowledge of Cho, I'm willing to give Herms the benefit of the doubt. If Ginny's interest in Harry has indeed waned, this could be an indication Ginny too, like Hermione, has changed.... but changed in opposite to Hermione (at least, Surface!Hermione). Herms, in appearance, started the "Crone" (the swotty, unwarranted advice giver), then becomes the "Mother" (affectionate protector and comforter - Molly Weasley, Lily Potter)... and is eventually destined to be the "Maid"/Wife? Ginny, on the other hand, has gone from the "Maid" (fancied Harry, Books 1-4) to the "Mother" (Book 6? Book 5 and her Cho relationship advice. She gives Harry a chocolate easter egg. An egg, a symbol of rebirth.... as the Earth Mother gives birth to her reborn King son. OotP, the same book we discover, in canon, Lily has red hair a la Weasley). As of Book 5, Ginny is now the matron form of Lily Potter for Harry? The next stage being the "Crone" (the advisor, the wise woman)... what will Crone!Ginny advice her growing KingSon!Harry of in Book 6? Book 7?
Of course, this gets even more complicated considering I believe Harry is BOTH the Oak *and* Holly Kings. He's Cernunnos (see other entries). Hermione, in actuality, has been the Crone, Mother *and* Maid. The triune goddess, partly because I feel she's displayed qualities of the trinity, in regards to Harry, from the start. Which means, Hermione is only changing in appearance, but underneath, she was always playing these three roles (we're just not going to fully realize it until, hypothetically speaking, Books 6 & 7). Always gives him advice, always protecting him like a mother and... loves him like a wife (as she became infatuated with the Gilderoy "brave and famous Dark Forces fighter" Lockhart? As she dated Viktor "Famous Seeker [who hates his fame]" Krum in GoF?)
All the above might sound all kinds of incesty and disturbing (or kinky, whatever floats your boat. OT3! WOOT!!)... blame the Celtic myths and those bloody Egyptians. They started it!
I'm very suspicious of Hermione's seemingly acute observations of Harry and his lovelife. She seems to observe him, Cho and apparently all Harry's potential love interests - including Ginny - a little too closely (aforementioned "Stalker!Hermione"). In Cliodna's lovely "The Sea of Confusion" (H/Hr shippy goodness from Herm's POV), she quotes Cleopatra who once said, "It's in the female psyche to investigate the women of the man they loved in order to make sure that they were worthy of the man, but not surpassing one’s own worthiness." This is considerably pronounced in OotP, where I do believe her true feelings are coming more into the forefront. Especially with the battles likely getting worse and the time ever coming closer that Harry may have that final battle with Voldemort. The question will come, What if he dies and he never knows how much he's really loved? Harry not only feels no love at the end of OotP, his self-loathing seems to be stronger than ever. Which is really dangerous. He's going to need Hermione. She not only can't stand the thought of him dying (Yes, he's her best friend... but... someone even joking about it she can't stand. No wonder she hated Professor "You have... THE GRIM. dun dun DUN" Trelawney so much and hated High Inquisitor "Cruciatus Curse" Umbitch even more). In theory, the thought of Harry's death is damn near unbearable to Hermione because of her feelings but, canonically, she's his reason and conscience. She's the voice in his head that tries to keep him from destroying himself. This is Hermione. She Harry's mother (Lily or Molly), the crone (Professor McGonagall)... but always bearing the love of a wife (in secret, Lily to James). She is Lily, yet not Lily. In other words, I think Hermione has enough love to not only give and protect a child, but Harry (the King) also. A missing element when James/Lily died... they didn't stay together. Something that doesn't seem to be evident with Harry and Hermione. Hermione has always been there (if not in body, then in spirit. Like in the labyrinth of the Third Task and Harry had to face the sphinx riddle. He thought of Hermione. Before/after the Wizengamot hearing in OotP, he saw the Magical Brethren statue and thought of Hermione, etc etc), every step of the way. Something that Ginny, Luna, Cho and Lily can't claim.
Which means... Harry could fall in love with his own mother, Professor McGonagall AND underage Books 1-4 Ginny All. At. Once. Ain't that a humdinger? ::is going to hell::
Back to Pt. 1, Pt. 2, Pt. 3
anneu53714 yesterday, I've got a nasty bout of the OCD with HHR OTP, so I can't resist putting an addendum to my last entries. It's the H/Hr perspective of my previous Celtic myth ramblings (and I must be crazy to post this on my LJ ::hopes the Ron & R/HR fans on my friends list don't beat me with reeds::)...Unfortunately Ron, for most of the story, seems like the ignored, maybe even a bit discarded, child. Not maligning Molly Weasley, she has a lot of kids to take care of and couldn't give them all the attention they deserved. She's not superwoman even though she tries to be. Passed over for six older, more accomplished brothers and the youngest Weasley child / only daughter. Hermione has been shown to mother both Ron and Harry quite often and at different stages. This motherly sort of affection could be why Ron seems to react so jealously and possessively of Hermione.... Ron's affection for Hermione is Oedipal. He yearns for motherly affection from any source and Hermione, being the only female in the Trio and has at times been VERY motherly/protective of Harry *and* Ron, he tends to get this sort of affection from Hermione. Not saying there aren't legitimate romantic feelings there, but there's also that (desperate?) yearning for motherly affection too. It's a bit of a jumbled psychological mess, but then it wouldn't be the Trio I love without a nice dose of some complexes. Otherwise, how are we going to get that inevitable JKR angsty conflict which I'm both sadistically salivating for and terrified of at the same time?
This relationship debacle with Hermione would also be in accordance to the Oak King and Holly King myth. The "Earth Mother" in the myth is a triune goddess, she plays the maid (wife), mother and old crone (wise woman / advisor) to the Oak King and Holly King. Her roles change with the passing of the equinoxes. For example... In Spring, she is the wife to the Oak King. In the fall she's the wife to the Holly King. However, in that rebirth is also huge part of the myth (as it is in HP), she's also responsible for giving birth to *both* the Oak and Holly Kings. The Oak King in midsummer and the Holly King in midwinter. One can say that to Harry and Ron, Hermione can be considered wife, mother and crone. However, when at the beginning of the books it might have seemed Hermione may be Ron's "wife"... as the books progress... she turns into his "mother". Hermione may fancy Ron, or she fancied him, but like the changing of the seasons, a teenage girl's heart can be swayed... but that, of course, remains to be seen.
The situation would be opposite for Harry. At the beginning, Hermione seemed more matronly / "crone"-ish (platonic) towards Harry.... but by the end, we're meandering into another season and she becomes Harry's "wife". She passes from one "King" to the other (a la, the Oak and Holly Kings). Although, I personally suspect she may have been harboring romantic feelings for Harry all along (because I'm an H/Hr shipper and I'm crazy-biased like that), it's just that - per a teenage girl with considerably nasty self-esteem issues - she never lets herself imagine she could be with someone like Harry (she puts him above her in a sense even back in PS/SS, "Books and cleverness! There are more important things..."). Harry, who likes pretty, older women who play Quidditch. Yet she also can't stay away from him. She's always there for him and seemingly always has to help him, no matter what sacrifices she has to make (GoF, Helping Harry learn the Accio charm, spending nearly eight hours doing it. Passing over homework, dinner, etc). Even trying to help him with Cho if it made him happy (and at that time, Harry really needed a little happiness), despite her own possible feelings. As far as Hermione knows, Harry doesn't remotely feel for her in that way (and she would know considering how apparently closely she's been observing him all along. Which is rather interesting and slightly disturbing in and of itself. Hermione the stalker?). She doesn't dare proposition him in OotP. Approaching him then might not have only meant a broken heart for her, but awkwardness between them and damaging their friendship. More trouble Harry didn't need. This could cause severe conflict with Ron too. Hermione also must know Ron has feelings for her, even if she may not return them (at least, not like she used to).
Sidenote: As Hermione changes in the passing of the seasons (school terms, in HP), as does her (theoretical) counterpart, Ginny. Ginny (who has many qualities in common with the Spring Maiden, often associated with Persephone. In COS, Beguiled and captured by [Holly King Tom] Hades and taken to the Underworld [Chamber of Secrets] where Hermes [Harry] and/or Mommy Demeter [Harry] had to go rescue her. With a little help from Hecate [Hermione]). The Spring Maiden who fancied the Oak King (Cernunnos) Harry once ... but as the story changes from Spring (Books 2-4) to Fall (Book 5?)... her interest in him has waned (per Hermione's Ginny insights in OotP). This could be false as Hermione isn't always right, but with her dead-on knowledge of Cho, I'm willing to give Herms the benefit of the doubt. If Ginny's interest in Harry has indeed waned, this could be an indication Ginny too, like Hermione, has changed.... but changed in opposite to Hermione (at least, Surface!Hermione). Herms, in appearance, started the "Crone" (the swotty, unwarranted advice giver), then becomes the "Mother" (affectionate protector and comforter - Molly Weasley, Lily Potter)... and is eventually destined to be the "Maid"/Wife? Ginny, on the other hand, has gone from the "Maid" (fancied Harry, Books 1-4) to the "Mother" (Book 6? Book 5 and her Cho relationship advice. She gives Harry a chocolate easter egg. An egg, a symbol of rebirth.... as the Earth Mother gives birth to her reborn King son. OotP, the same book we discover, in canon, Lily has red hair a la Weasley). As of Book 5, Ginny is now the matron form of Lily Potter for Harry? The next stage being the "Crone" (the advisor, the wise woman)... what will Crone!Ginny advice her growing KingSon!Harry of in Book 6? Book 7?
Of course, this gets even more complicated considering I believe Harry is BOTH the Oak *and* Holly Kings. He's Cernunnos (see other entries). Hermione, in actuality, has been the Crone, Mother *and* Maid. The triune goddess, partly because I feel she's displayed qualities of the trinity, in regards to Harry, from the start. Which means, Hermione is only changing in appearance, but underneath, she was always playing these three roles (we're just not going to fully realize it until, hypothetically speaking, Books 6 & 7). Always gives him advice, always protecting him like a mother and... loves him like a wife (as she became infatuated with the Gilderoy "brave and famous Dark Forces fighter" Lockhart? As she dated Viktor "Famous Seeker [who hates his fame]" Krum in GoF?)
All the above might sound all kinds of incesty and disturbing (or kinky, whatever floats your boat. OT3! WOOT!!)... blame the Celtic myths and those bloody Egyptians. They started it!
I'm very suspicious of Hermione's seemingly acute observations of Harry and his lovelife. She seems to observe him, Cho and apparently all Harry's potential love interests - including Ginny - a little too closely (aforementioned "Stalker!Hermione"). In Cliodna's lovely "The Sea of Confusion" (H/Hr shippy goodness from Herm's POV), she quotes Cleopatra who once said, "It's in the female psyche to investigate the women of the man they loved in order to make sure that they were worthy of the man, but not surpassing one’s own worthiness." This is considerably pronounced in OotP, where I do believe her true feelings are coming more into the forefront. Especially with the battles likely getting worse and the time ever coming closer that Harry may have that final battle with Voldemort. The question will come, What if he dies and he never knows how much he's really loved? Harry not only feels no love at the end of OotP, his self-loathing seems to be stronger than ever. Which is really dangerous. He's going to need Hermione. She not only can't stand the thought of him dying (Yes, he's her best friend... but... someone even joking about it she can't stand. No wonder she hated Professor "You have... THE GRIM. dun dun DUN" Trelawney so much and hated High Inquisitor "Cruciatus Curse" Umbitch even more). In theory, the thought of Harry's death is damn near unbearable to Hermione because of her feelings but, canonically, she's his reason and conscience. She's the voice in his head that tries to keep him from destroying himself. This is Hermione. She Harry's mother (Lily or Molly), the crone (Professor McGonagall)... but always bearing the love of a wife (in secret, Lily to James). She is Lily, yet not Lily. In other words, I think Hermione has enough love to not only give and protect a child, but Harry (the King) also. A missing element when James/Lily died... they didn't stay together. Something that doesn't seem to be evident with Harry and Hermione. Hermione has always been there (if not in body, then in spirit. Like in the labyrinth of the Third Task and Harry had to face the sphinx riddle. He thought of Hermione. Before/after the Wizengamot hearing in OotP, he saw the Magical Brethren statue and thought of Hermione, etc etc), every step of the way. Something that Ginny, Luna, Cho and Lily can't claim.
Which means... Harry could fall in love with his own mother, Professor McGonagall AND underage Books 1-4 Ginny All. At. Once. Ain't that a humdinger? ::is going to hell::
Back to Pt. 1, Pt. 2, Pt. 3
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Date: 2004-06-24 06:03 am (UTC)