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[personal profile] retro_eidas
I will say that on the cry scale Family of Blood > Doomsday, probably .... but I didn't cry with this anymore than I did DD. Which likely means I am totally cold-blooded, but... I'm just not a crier, sue me. I liked this ep, but not as much as Human Nature.

Part of the reason why I didn't feel the need to cry at all is because you have Smith one second not willing to see the youngins he'd been training use those guns shooting scarecrows (which is fine and right to finally feel bad about seeing boys forced into that sort of situation), then next second Doesn't. Open. The. Frakking. Watch. when god damn hellfire and brimstone is literally raining down on the village and opening the watch will make it stop faster. I realize the man was facing suicide in order to make the bombing stop, but... countless people are dying. And he's standing their being emo and crying which is a very human reaction, but... I also completely realize this could entirely be just me and it's unfair... but the the emo and crying over the watch? Instead of tugging at my heartstrings, it inadvertantly touched that killer movie pet peeve of mine. The characters in movies who would rather stand there and cry/scream and be useless then do something about stopping whatever terror breathing down not only their own neck but countless innocent people and they have the power in their hands to make it stop... but they don't. Oh Jesus. Again, I realize this was likely a very unfair reaction to have (for several reasons), namely the ep overall was good and most of the time hit the right notes in me, but I'd also kept thinking about Last Temptation of Christ and unfairly comparing at that moment (and here, the Father?! Why Have You Forsaken Me?! emo failed on me, a lot. I wanted to kick Jesus in the head... which I don't think is what they were going for). This all harkens back to when I couldn't not compare Doomsday and Pullman's The Amber Spyglass and that emo also failing on me. I just hope in the rewatch this kneejerk reaction of mine doesn't get worse (which it has for Doomsday which I've become entirely indifferent towards). I really hope it doesn't, because there are many things I liked about the ep and it pains me the moments of the Big Drama are seemingly the ones that least worked for me.

David Tennant did give one helluva a performance though (even if the ep did feel a tinge of Let's give DT the gravitas people were overtly complaining went missing when Eccleston left. Felt a bit like... attractive actresses who get ugly to win Oscars. Felt a bit put-on... but frak, I seem to be in a complaining mood? Ugh! Must stop). That first bit of emo crying, when John, Martha and Joan are ducked out in the forest staring at the hostage TARDIS, did work for me. Excellent acting all around, in fact.

Martha is bonafide empress of the universe, but not like that really needs to be said. Saving herself and everyone else (and didn't I call that last week?? Tim opens the watch, distracting them just enough so Martha takes control!) in the near hostage crisis facing down the whole Family and their army by herself? *needs icon of Take Charge Martha* Being slightly emo, but yet still getting things done, telling John Smith to escort his "ladyfriend" outside (as he was panicking and being totally rubbish). Holy frakking Ellen Ripley, Batman. "Bones in the hand." Take THAT casual racism!! Amazing Joan could still manage being so utterly dismissive/casually racist at her, despite Martha basically saving them all from that little dance hall mess, practically single-handed. Some habits are hard to break I suppose 1913 England! May the Doctor NEVER go there again!. Yet for three months of racism, dismissiveness, forced into subservient hell and from John Smith himself..... a hug? And Martha apparently just being ok with that?? Yeah, thanks a lot screw you too Rusty. That doesn't cut it, not by a longshot. Sure he has immense amounts of trust in Martha essentially placing his life squarely in her hands as he did. If the Doctor doesn't learn to really start showing his appreciation of her more soon, I... worry for her. The (supposed) unrequited thing and Martha feeling underappreciated does feel like it's Going Somewhere, I'm sure it is in fact (I heard as much is said in the Confidential). But... it almost seems like set-up for the Doctor to not know what he has until it's (almost) gone. Which is already habit canonically. He didn't manage to attempt telling Rose how he felt about her until it was too late. He may not realize how much Martha has done for him / means to him until she's paid for it in some horrible way and opening those stubbornly closed, oblivious, superior Lord of Time eyes of his. That seems Rusty's way, his answer to "epic" (the epic tragedy). Martha dying / maimed in some horrible way (possibly genetically if the theme holds up) in his arms and only then is when blind jackass finally "sees what's right in front of [him]". Tells her of her awesome, truly appreciates her, when she's so fargone or too weak to hear him. Ugh.

I did love that veteran's memorial at the end as my scale of awesome in this ep fell Martha > Tim > Joan > The Doctor (as he didn't appear much and Smith, despite self-sacrifice, doesn't register to me). I did love seeing Tim at the end (although in a wheelchair, that couldn't have been him then seeing Present-Day!Martha bumping into him in that vision in the last ep... but I now suspect the vision was only to show-off Tim's enhanced clairvoyance via the watch, not anything foreshadowy). even if Band of Brothers pulled the tv war heartstrings better where the memorializing is concerned, but they only had 42 min. and BoB is keerazy long. They did try. Not to mention, I felt - and hopefully rightly - Martha = Tim. The one who can thanklessly pull, even that stupid guy who abused and bullied you in school, from the mire and death... just by the sheer power of their awesome. I'd wished the Doctor invited Tim onto the TARDIS and not Joan (even if I understand why he did it), despite Tim's fate already foreseen. Maybe he absorbed enough Time Lord mojo to regenerate? *wishful thinks* Sadly it seems the TARDIS is only room enough for those legal-enough the Doctor can have innuendo with.

I would complain about too many epilogues (because, yeah... too many epilogues) if I didn't think I'd already just used up my complaint quota for the season, namely what I felt was needless lengthiness of the Joan / Doctor goodbye (maybe had the Last Temptation of Christ emo worked on me it wouldn't have felt so long?)... but the scene is saved by that last thing of pwnage Joan says to the Doctor. Because seriously, that did need to be said. Especially after this whole Old Testament bent of the Doctor's (that was some frighteningly dark shit). The Doctor can be one scary son of a bitch and sometimes thoughtlessly so (despite all his good intentions). Picking the village on a whim, ultimately saving the day but leaving so much devastation in his wake. He gets off too much - often in fluff and light and giggles - without it being called on. Queen Victoria had similar pwnage last season but it felt like it got handwaved due to Ten/Rose taking the piss (before and after, despite rightly being exiled, however futile that was with their convenient space & time machine. Laughing like idiots when people are getting torn to pieces by a monster). Like she was being some rigid, superior beeyotch overreacting. Here it comes from the beloved Joan... and that had to cut and you could see in the Doctor's face how much it cut. I managed to feel bad for Joan too because she's a widow all over again, because saying what she did, it was like this very harsh, very real acknowledgement that - despite what the Doctor says about John Smith still being inside him (somewhere... deep down) - John Smith was dead to her. She even seems to hate the Doctor (perhaps likening the Doctor to the man that shot her first husband? As the Doctor's existence means John Smith's death). I loved that and it was a bigger emotional pay-off for me than all the watch emo. Although too bad it seemed to have come a bit at the expense of the Doctor's appreciation of Martha which should have been much more than there was, but as I spec'd above that probably won't come 'til the finale anyway... and probably in some extreme fashion. Although there won't be any immediate emotional fall-out for the Doctor (or Doctor/Martha) after this ep, I do think that hubris will be catching up the Doctor in the finale. Joan's last pwnage seems to be suggesting as much.

They didn't kill the Family of Blood because they wanted to show how frakking terrifying the Doctor can be... but also methinks to potentially bring the Family back in the future at some random time when they need a good villain out of the woodwork.

Next week? The Moffat ep. It's about damn time too. Even if it's also the (cutting corners with the budget cuz we're running out of money) Doctor&Martha-lite ep of the season.

Date: 2007-06-03 01:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gryffinclaw.livejournal.com
This is really an episdoe to show how great Martha is.

Then there is Tim. I thought he was just great. He said the quote and I gasped.

The memorial at the end brought a tear to my eye. Yes a single tear but considering I never even felt the hint of tears in Doomsday that is something.

I can not count the ways I love Martha Jones.

Date: 2007-06-03 01:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eido.livejournal.com
I almost wished she'd inhaled the Time Lord mojo, took off with the TARDIS and left Smith the whiny emo bitch to his own vices with Joan and the chil'rins and geezer make-up.

I truly understand why the Doctor invited Joan, but I can't help but be peeved with him not bothering to ask Tim at all (although I think Tim would have turned him down too, but not for the same reasons as Joan). I suppose the Doctor can only invite one person an ep into the TARDIS. *sighs* Tim was more a Big Damn Hero in this ep but the Doctor (apart from scary Old Testament vengeance stuff, the Doctor just did what he always does, manically, and saved the day. Huzzah.)

But yes (and speaking of Big Damn Heroes), we need to keep Martha Jones for some time longer. At least for one more season oh pretty please before she goes off to be superdoctor. Her awesome is nigh uncontainable.

Date: 2007-06-03 02:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] significantowl.livejournal.com
killer movie pet peeve of mine.

me too OMG. There's all this crying and bombing and I just wanted to yell 'suck it up'... but the story was doing the right thing, I think, it was a huge thing for John to do, and also, that emphasized the sort of cosmic differences between him and the Doctor (different kinds of bravery and selfishness)... but I had to really remind myself that this was right and this was real because holy hell, just open the watch already.

(On the other hand, I'm glad Smith did all the crying for me, because it kept me from being tempted to.)

Date: 2007-06-03 06:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eido.livejournal.com
me too OMG. There's all this crying and bombing and I just wanted to yell 'suck it up'... but the story was doing the right thing, I think, it was a huge thing for John to do, and also, that emphasized the sort of cosmic differences between him and the Doctor (different kinds of bravery and selfishness)

I actually thought a bit later on that possibly John Smith's devastation at having to kill himself / that life with Joan for the Greater Good = the Doctor's devastation ultimately having to destroy Gallifrey also for the Greater Good. Incidentally, like he did with the Cult of Skaro in DiM/EOTD, he offers life over death... but in the case of FOB, it was life as a punishment. Because living is the greatest punishment there apparently is (for them), of which he would probably know best. Worse still is that he doesn't even let them live the punishment together, but separated. Forever and alone, just like him (which apparently is fitting in his eyes as they essentially made him live through the dead planet & people emo all over again microcosmically. Which might explain the near inordinate amounts of anger that would lead to such a terrifying resolve, it's the anger/pain of the dead planet & people coming out, not just the John Smith angst).

... but I had to really remind myself that this was right and this was real because holy hell, just open the watch already.

But yes. I just rewatched, and although my frustration/annoyance has dulled somewhat.. I still kind of want to kick Smith in the head (and hope that isn't the closest we'll ever come to Gallifrey/Time War flashbacks).

Tennant did do marvelously with the acting though. As did Jessica Hynes (especially Jessica Hynes). If it wasn't for the awesome of the acting, I'm not entirely certain I would have taken any emotional investment from their relationship (mostly due to the conventionalist elitism of their 1913 waspishness). At once they were these genuinely unlikable people, yet you still could be touched in some part by their connection. That is talent right there. That last scene between Joan and the Doctor is just devastating and it's so short and subtle, yet absolutely menacing and heartwrenching at the same time. I really do think she absolutely and believably despised him right then, hated the Doctor but still loved John Smith (who is dead to her, killed by the Doctor like so many in the village... all because of his whim). Brilliant.

Date: 2007-06-09 02:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] significantowl.livejournal.com
John Smith's devastation at having to kill himself / that life with Joan for the Greater Good = the Doctor's devastation ultimately having to destroy Gallifrey also for the Greater Good

v., v. good point. I've seen it said out there that it was Mostly About Rose, but I just don't believe that; I'm with you in it being about Gallifrey.

He lets the family go because he doesn't want to do a horrible thing to them (kill them, presumably), and ends up doing something far worse... we were talking at my house about, is that a Genesis of the Daleks/Time War parallel? Nifty if so.

And so, so true about Tennant and Hynes. Hynes (or Daisy as she will always be in my head) had the hardest job to do, and she did it *so* well. Just perfectly pitched from both of them.

Man, I love our show. <3

Date: 2007-06-09 04:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eido.livejournal.com
I've seen it said out there that it was Mostly About Rose

I don't know how some can seriously think that and not, you know, break into peals of laughter. Dude. She's not even dead! She's alive in another dimension with her whole damn family. She may factor in a little, but come on, dead planet/people >>>> dead ungirlfriend. No contest.

I'm with you in it being about Gallifrey.

Srsly, you can see a helluva lot of Gallifrey/Time War this entire season. For evidences! I nicked this from [livejournal.com profile] nostalgia_lj, but someone had made this analysis of awesome connecting 42 & the Time War. (http://prof-pangaea.livejournal.com/133618.html) It's not about Rose , it's not about Martha, it's about the BIG EMO of the Time War. As it should be since... a whole dead planet and people. It just so happens Martha is here when this shit is really starting to hit the fan. The Gallifrey angst was there two seasons ago, but the planet wasn't even named until TRB.

Date: 2007-06-03 03:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] juanitadark.livejournal.com
That shot of John holding the gun and not being able to shoot. The Doctor paid hard for being unwilling to destroy the Family immediately - and lots of people got destroyed and worse, the people left behind will never be able to appreciate or understand why.

I bet Joan didn't understand why he couldn't simply live out a life as John and then go back to being emo time lord after she died. The main question being: why does the Doctor go on? Which was echoed when John asked Martha why she needed him (as The Doctor) and she could only say that he was lonely.

I'm wondering, what with him letting the last Dalek go and 'sparing' the Family in horrible ways - if something isn't going to force his hand where outright killing is concerned.

Or... here's a thought - what if Martha did it?

Why is there not more darkfic for this season? It's chocful of the dark potential.

Date: 2007-06-03 04:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] juanitadark.livejournal.com
ps - the only reason I can figure the Doctor goes on is that magical sense of wonder and discovery he has - and atonement for something he did wrong.

Date: 2007-06-03 06:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eido.livejournal.com
I bet Joan didn't understand why he couldn't simply live out a life as John and then go back to being emo time lord after she died. The main question being: why does the Doctor go on?

To tell you the truth, I think she actually understood why John Smith had to die better than John Smith did (as she seemed to side with Martha more and more in trying to help Smith let go), but you're right though, the question still is why does the Doctor go on?, or perhaps, why does the Doctor *deserve* to go on?. Why are you still alive Doctor (when John Smith / Gallifrey is gone)? What is your purpose in this life? This guy who has so much power at his hands that he can throw around - in a whim - that can save or destroy so indiscriminately. Which kind of makes me think this is where the season is headed, giving the Doctor a specific purpose to live on. Joan reminded him of the pain of his losses, but also put a mirror right in his face of the horrible and terrifying side of himself (if left unchecked... considering what he'd just gone done doing to the Family? Beloved Joan's words at the end must have not only been a total sideswipe coming from her in particular, but been about the worst knife in the gut. Facing what he fears the most about himself, kind of the same thing happened in "42" in his terror of killing everyone by way of the sun-possession.... until Martha saved him) .... while Martha, on the other side, reminds him of the wonderful he can be, why he's worth saving and why it's worth "holding on" to life. Martha, this absolutely exemplary human (and decades of canon reason why the Doctor continues fighting, for the amazing potential of humans like Martha... and Tim and Joan, etc). At least in this particular arc. Will Martha (in the finale?) ultimately be faced with the same conundrum Joan had been at the end of FOB?

I'm wondering, what with him letting the last Dalek go and 'sparing' the Family in horrible ways - if something isn't going to force his hand where outright killing is concerned.

Or... here's a thought - what if Martha did it?


It could be (especially if her family/planet were directly threatened). Humans this season - after all - have more than just an appreciation of music or scientific progress for the sake of helping others (the splitting of the atom and genetic engineering had progressive, non-lethal benefits to them... as well as horrifying condemnation). Which makes me wonder if there's also a responsability of wielding immense power underlying theme this season.... the Doctor has immense power and sometimes that can save people, other times it destroys villages and leaves all kinds of emotional/psychological baggage. Humans genetically engineer their crops to make them more resilient or healthful ... but then there's the Doomsday scenarios about some dangerous, dormant strand of DNA in this food (Lazaruzilla ruffage!!) inadvertantly unleashed due to being "out of their depth" when it comes to genetics, then all that food needing to be destroyed causing some worldwide food shortage and any side effects that need to be contained. So humans are being protected by the Doctor - from alien threats and also from themselves.... but then who watches the Watchman?

Although Martha also has a role of peacemaker.... but then I keep thinking of those old westerns that referred to their guns by the same nickname ("peacemakers"). Or how about the "Peacekeepers" in Farscape? An ironic name considering the obvious rigid militaristic and superior society Peacekeepers abided by. Judoon could be their space rhino cousins... police, but also interplanetary thugs.

Why is there not more darkfic for this season? It's chocful of the dark potential.

Maybe because there is more obvious darkness, fanficcers don't feel the need to add to it in fic? But yeah, it is a lot darker... and from the sounds of things, only to get moreso.

Date: 2007-06-03 10:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-caged-heart.livejournal.com
I just got done seeing this one, and....WOW.

I was blown away here, by the performances all around. This was one of the rare episodes that didn't make me go all "bah" when I saw the bad guys. *flashback to Runaway Bride...great episode, horrrrrrrrible main villain* Baines/Son of mine, Mother of mine...hell all four of the "of mines" were just creepy without drifting off into cartoon land. Happens quite often. And Timothy Lattimer? I want to adopt that kid right here, right now. He was superb is all respects. Martha/Freema was in control here, and Mr. Tennant? His breakdown when hiding and seeing the TARDIS make my throat tighten.

What I saw here was perhaps a Doctor, while in Simm's body, not wanting to go back to his own life. It is a bit or a coward's way out, to reject the life you led for so long, and all the pain caused and suffered, to remain safe and secure and...happy...inside a simple man and his simple life. When the Doctor proclaims that John Smith still exists, deep down inside himself, I firmly believe the opposite is true as well. Deep down inside John Smith, the Doctor existed, and, to me at least, (in my rather sentimental reading of the episode), the Doctor was inside, wanting to remain there, wanting to no longer be responsible, directly or indirectly for the death and destruction that follows him where he goes. "I WANT TO BE JOHN SMITH!!"

Perhaps it is my fanficcy beast deep inside me that sees that. In my eyes, I could fully understand the tormoil that John Smith/The Doctor was going through. John did not want to die/cease to exist, and the Doctor deep inside also did not want John Smith to die either. For me at least, it was not the Doctor who burst out to save the day, it was John Smith forcing him out, knowing it was what was "best". The Doctor knew what he would end up doing, it was what he always did. He ended things. "I'm the Doctor...I win." And often his end is not a pretty one.

The emo bits, for once at least, did not bother me at all. I expected them, and to me they weren't jarring at all. The Doctor was forced back and he was forced to be what he had always been, and basically what he has come to hate. Time Lord. Damaged, hurt, scared and ultimately responsible for what happens in his wake. I believe this is why, when faced with all the deaths and violence and mayhem it was so painful for Smith to let go. It was because the Doctor didn't want to let go. The Doctor wanted to live the mundane, anonymous life as John Smith.

I was rooting for Joan in the end. She was absolutely right. A painful attention getting metaphorical slap across the face with a sharp muddy rock. Go Joan.

Getting to know the Doctor can be a real gift, and at the same time it can be a real, life altering (or ending) curse as well. (see previous companions) I firmly believe, for as oblivious as he seems at times, he fully knows that. Yup, he's lonely, and he needs someone in his life to keep him company. And I do belive Donna was right. He needs to be stopped. This was the chance to stop himself, and he tried, in vain. He failed. And I do believe that in future episodes we will see his failure eat away at him with a vengeance. Can he in fact be stopped, or is it too late? Or will a self-sacrifice/death (a real death, not another regeneration) be the only way out for him?

Damn, this was wordy wasn't it? Sorry about that...just had to get it out.

Date: 2007-06-09 04:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eido.livejournal.com
Getting to know the Doctor can be a real gift, and at the same time it can be a real, life altering (or ending) curse as well. (see previous companions). I firmly believe, for as oblivious as he seems at times, he fully knows that.

Although sometimes he can be thoughtless and forget how much his influence (or mere presence, in this case) can affect the lives of others. Innocent others, for the most part, who are un/lucky enough to stumble onto his path. However, these eps he willfully put the village and a bunch of schoolboys right in the line of fire... which still makes that last scene between Joan and the Doctor one of my favorites (despite my whiny rant mode above... the ep was still powerful in many ways). Talk about something that really needed to be said. He saved them all, but had he never came they would have never been in danger to begin with.

And I do belive Donna was right. He needs to be stopped. This was the chance to stop himself, and he tried, in vain. He failed. And I do believe that in future episodes we will see his failure eat away at him with a vengeance. Can he in fact be stopped, or is it too late?

Donna seems to foreshadow that person is going to be Martha somehow (as she is the one with him now post-Donna). Although how that will pan out, I haven't a clue (I fear for her though. The Doctor is so damn scary this season, from what he did to the Racnoss progeny to his dealings with The Family). She's going to have to channel Sarah Jane in School Reunion in one way or another (she stopped him from succumbing to Evil!Giles temptation when, noticeably, Rose did not), but methinks Sarah got off rather light. The Doctor was scary last season, but ... he's gotten worse dude.

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