The Oak & Holly Kings and HP, Pt. 3
Jun. 14th, 2004 08:10 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
retro_eidasI've had the impression for awhile that history seems to be repeating itself in HP. The OotP Sorting Hat song seems to be a good indication of this. Nearly Headless Nick also said the hat has made warnings before. The Founders... Four friends, abandoned by one, leaving three "downhearted" friends behind. "And never since the founders four, were whittled down to three, have the Houses been united, as they once were meant to be." A similar situation happened between the Marauders (4-1=3). Will yet another happen in Harry's generation? Will it be the last generation it happens to? With the existance of Trelawney's prophecies it's a very real possibility... but then we don't know if any other prophecies might have been made in other generations by other Seers.
Hagrid's broken wand is made of Oak. This could possibly be another pair representing the battle of the Oak & Holly Kings. In this case, Hagrid (Oak King) vs. Tom Riddle (Holly King). Tom Riddle got him expelled from Hogwarts, but Dumbledore stood up for Hagrid and made him gamekeeper. Expulsion = death. Gamekeeper job = rebirth. The concept of expulsion = death is reflected, I think, at least two more times in HP (if there's anymore, feel free to bring them up). Once by Hermione in PS/SS, "I'm going to bed before either of you come up with another clever idea that could get us killed... or worse... expelled.". This makes sense considering Hermione's acute fear of failure (PoA, her boggart). Again in OotP when Harry faced expulsion from Hogwarts and had to face the Wizengamot for breaking the law of Underage Wizardry. Harry not able to go back to Hogwarts and stuck with the Dursleys would have been like dying for him, perhaps figuratively and literally (The dementors, once again back in Voldemort's services, infiltrated Little Whinging once, they could do it again). In consideration to this, Hermione's reaction to Harry being acquitted of the Underage Wizardry charges is interesting. Did she have such a severe emotional reaction due to her own psychological complexes in regards to failure/expulsion or did she deduce that Harry getting expelled would have been as good as a death sentence?
Hagrid also has some other similarities to Cernunnos. The King of All Beasts in particular... as long as they're "interesting creatures". Then again, "interesting creatures" to Hagrid can be "terrible monsters to everyone else". Hagrid doesn't have a normal person's view of what's dangerous. This could be representative of Cernunnos. To some he was a "terrible monster" (bringer of death, satan, the hunter) and to others an "interesting creature" (god of resurrection/life, Jesus, King Arthur, etc).
Greenery often associated with the "Oak King", besides oak, is mistletoe. Mistletoe is a parasitic plant that grows on other trees. If left unchecked, it can kill them by stealing the trees' nutrients. Voldemort said he'd been a parasite, latching onto snakes in the Dark Forests of (I think) Albania. Perpetually having to change hosts because the snakes died because of the possession, until Voldemort found Quirrell wandering through the forest.
However, Mistletoe also has pleasant connotations for Christmas. Harry kissed Cho under the mistletoe (but then again, that relationship didn't turn out so well, did it? Neither did that kiss as a matter of fact). Luna Lovegood warned him it was full of "gnarles", whatever those are (maybe they're little evil fairies that ruin romantic relationships? :p ).
Holly (Harry's wand) and Yew (Voldemort's wand) are biologically (and perhaps mystically as well, not wholly sure) related. It's in the conifer family. It's one of the few British evergreens (along with Holly). Two related trees, one represents life and the other represents death. Once again, it goes back to the "lost prophecy" (separate but equal).
I've read in some places the difference between Harry and Voldemort is that Voldemort fears death, while Harry doesn't. This isn't something I agree with. Harry is afraid to die, he's only human after all. It's just that he's willing to put aside that fear in order to save those he cares about. Their lives are his responsability. HE is Voldemort's enemy, no one else, so it's up to him and only him to stop him before he kills anyone he cares about. So he thinks. It's the bane any leader "who cares so much" goes through. Harry needs to realize he's not in on this alone and those who fight alongside him do so by their own volition. It's not all his fault... although he's not faultless either. He needs to be more careful in the choices he makes and the advice he takes if he wants to be a true leader and keep his friends alive. Harry needs to also realize, however, that his life too is worth saving. This is something I don't think he fully understands or really cares about by the end of OotP. Which is really sad. Because of this, I wouldn't be at all surprise we see the Dementors show up again in Book 6. If Harry's suffering was irresistable to the Dementors in PoA, god knows how tempting he'd be to them after the events in OotP.
The difference between Voldemort and Harry is that Voldemort lives for Voldemort. Harry lives for those he loves. He's willing to die for them. Of course, Voldemort would hate this mindset because "nothing is worse than death". The idea of giving your life willingly for something as useless and petty as "love" would be a appalling to him. The pain of losing Sirius was so crippling, Harry was willing to die to alleviate it (just so he could be with Sirius again). This is both one of Harry's greatest attributes and one of his greatest failings. It's a noble gesture to desire to give your life for your loved ones to protect them, but it's something else when these suicidal tendencies start effecting other people. The ill-fated Department of Mysteries raid is a shining example of that. A leader who doesn't seem to grasp self-preservation tactics at all can be considered brave, but not very smart. Harry needs to learn to curb this courageous, reckless, self-sacrificing behavior with some more sensible thinking and self-preservation. In a sense, he needs to make a balance between the raging Gryffindor in him with some of that Slytherin which he seemingly tends to resist. At the end of OotP considering what happened, the concept seems damn near loathsome to him. This also goes back to Harry's hatred for Snape. Learning to be more Slytherin is going to be an interesting progression to say the least, but I think it's one that's utmost necessary for Harry to completely understand who he is. Some nice big doses of logical thinking from Ravenclaw-minded Hermione wouldn't hurt either.
Back to Pt. 1, Pt. 2,
Cont. to The (H/Hr) shipper perspective.
Hagrid's broken wand is made of Oak. This could possibly be another pair representing the battle of the Oak & Holly Kings. In this case, Hagrid (Oak King) vs. Tom Riddle (Holly King). Tom Riddle got him expelled from Hogwarts, but Dumbledore stood up for Hagrid and made him gamekeeper. Expulsion = death. Gamekeeper job = rebirth. The concept of expulsion = death is reflected, I think, at least two more times in HP (if there's anymore, feel free to bring them up). Once by Hermione in PS/SS, "I'm going to bed before either of you come up with another clever idea that could get us killed... or worse... expelled.". This makes sense considering Hermione's acute fear of failure (PoA, her boggart). Again in OotP when Harry faced expulsion from Hogwarts and had to face the Wizengamot for breaking the law of Underage Wizardry. Harry not able to go back to Hogwarts and stuck with the Dursleys would have been like dying for him, perhaps figuratively and literally (The dementors, once again back in Voldemort's services, infiltrated Little Whinging once, they could do it again). In consideration to this, Hermione's reaction to Harry being acquitted of the Underage Wizardry charges is interesting. Did she have such a severe emotional reaction due to her own psychological complexes in regards to failure/expulsion or did she deduce that Harry getting expelled would have been as good as a death sentence?
Hagrid also has some other similarities to Cernunnos. The King of All Beasts in particular... as long as they're "interesting creatures". Then again, "interesting creatures" to Hagrid can be "terrible monsters to everyone else". Hagrid doesn't have a normal person's view of what's dangerous. This could be representative of Cernunnos. To some he was a "terrible monster" (bringer of death, satan, the hunter) and to others an "interesting creature" (god of resurrection/life, Jesus, King Arthur, etc).
Greenery often associated with the "Oak King", besides oak, is mistletoe. Mistletoe is a parasitic plant that grows on other trees. If left unchecked, it can kill them by stealing the trees' nutrients. Voldemort said he'd been a parasite, latching onto snakes in the Dark Forests of (I think) Albania. Perpetually having to change hosts because the snakes died because of the possession, until Voldemort found Quirrell wandering through the forest.
However, Mistletoe also has pleasant connotations for Christmas. Harry kissed Cho under the mistletoe (but then again, that relationship didn't turn out so well, did it? Neither did that kiss as a matter of fact). Luna Lovegood warned him it was full of "gnarles", whatever those are (maybe they're little evil fairies that ruin romantic relationships? :p ).
Holly (Harry's wand) and Yew (Voldemort's wand) are biologically (and perhaps mystically as well, not wholly sure) related. It's in the conifer family. It's one of the few British evergreens (along with Holly). Two related trees, one represents life and the other represents death. Once again, it goes back to the "lost prophecy" (separate but equal).
I've read in some places the difference between Harry and Voldemort is that Voldemort fears death, while Harry doesn't. This isn't something I agree with. Harry is afraid to die, he's only human after all. It's just that he's willing to put aside that fear in order to save those he cares about. Their lives are his responsability. HE is Voldemort's enemy, no one else, so it's up to him and only him to stop him before he kills anyone he cares about. So he thinks. It's the bane any leader "who cares so much" goes through. Harry needs to realize he's not in on this alone and those who fight alongside him do so by their own volition. It's not all his fault... although he's not faultless either. He needs to be more careful in the choices he makes and the advice he takes if he wants to be a true leader and keep his friends alive. Harry needs to also realize, however, that his life too is worth saving. This is something I don't think he fully understands or really cares about by the end of OotP. Which is really sad. Because of this, I wouldn't be at all surprise we see the Dementors show up again in Book 6. If Harry's suffering was irresistable to the Dementors in PoA, god knows how tempting he'd be to them after the events in OotP.
The difference between Voldemort and Harry is that Voldemort lives for Voldemort. Harry lives for those he loves. He's willing to die for them. Of course, Voldemort would hate this mindset because "nothing is worse than death". The idea of giving your life willingly for something as useless and petty as "love" would be a appalling to him. The pain of losing Sirius was so crippling, Harry was willing to die to alleviate it (just so he could be with Sirius again). This is both one of Harry's greatest attributes and one of his greatest failings. It's a noble gesture to desire to give your life for your loved ones to protect them, but it's something else when these suicidal tendencies start effecting other people. The ill-fated Department of Mysteries raid is a shining example of that. A leader who doesn't seem to grasp self-preservation tactics at all can be considered brave, but not very smart. Harry needs to learn to curb this courageous, reckless, self-sacrificing behavior with some more sensible thinking and self-preservation. In a sense, he needs to make a balance between the raging Gryffindor in him with some of that Slytherin which he seemingly tends to resist. At the end of OotP considering what happened, the concept seems damn near loathsome to him. This also goes back to Harry's hatred for Snape. Learning to be more Slytherin is going to be an interesting progression to say the least, but I think it's one that's utmost necessary for Harry to completely understand who he is. Some nice big doses of logical thinking from Ravenclaw-minded Hermione wouldn't hurt either.
Back to Pt. 1, Pt. 2,
Cont. to The (H/Hr) shipper perspective.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2004-06-17 11:18 am (UTC)I dig the thoughts on rebirth and the seasons and the binary nature of Harry, Voldermort. I'm not entirely convinced by the Celtic myths being so influential as you seem to argue, certainly they're influences, but who can tell how much given that they're mixed up with other influences.
Of course this may be me speaking with my Welsh-filter on blinkering me from seeing the connection with the broader mythology. For instance Arthurian doesn't really mean the medieval Arthur to me, although that's obviously a key influence. And yet, the connection with the stag, the woods of the wand, the significance of the times of year. . .
So, again, I say interesting.
no subject
Date: 2004-06-21 03:44 am (UTC)He's not the medieval Arthur to me either. I do tend to think of Mallory's version first, but I know Arthur is more a gobbledigook of history and fiction spanning over a thousand years of British history. Some of it can surely take credit from Celtic myth, which is partly why I'm so focused on them. You can pull so much from the Celtic myth and say it's a messianic, "Arthurian" or "Robin Goodfellow" homage... because you can find all of these similarities in the myths. Which is why it may seem HP seems to be originating from all of these sources... they all may have the common Celtic basis. I focused on the Oak King and the Holly King because, to me, it seemed of the myths I was more familiar with... it had the most similarities to HP.
And yet, the connection with the stag, the woods of the wand, the significance of the times of year. . .
The idea of the "Spirit Animal" helping us on our journey in the "Otherworld" (something like the Stag patronus in PoA taking Harry's father's animagus form. Harry's father aiding him from beyond the grave), the heavy influence Celtic lore has on magic or magical myth itself, the importance of prophecy, etc etc... all of this has shout-outs to Celtic myth. It's saturated in HP.