![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
retro_eidasAs I told some of y'all I would post my next set of long, random BS thoughts in regards to HP (and not all of you visit Portkey where I first posted this several days ago), I thought I'd post my more recent strands of BS.
I was wondering if OotP may have marked a very different outcome for Harry in the death of "The Grim"... aka, Sirius.
I'm not entirely certain why, with Sirius gone, Harry would come off better. However, I can't help but remember Hermione's suspicion (with Sirius backing up the DA idea)....
Usually, when Hermione is suspicious of something (in this case, someone), she tends to be right. Barring the Firebolt, which she had only been half-right about. We also see numerous instances where Hermione gives Harry very good advice (the Occlumency, wary of Harry's dreams of Sirius' torture by Voldemort in the MoM, etc), which he ignores, but in retrospect should have heeded. Incidentally, Molly Weasley didn't trust Sirius either.
Then again, it might not necessarily be that Sirius died, but the most resounding symbol of Harry's death, The Grim (personified in Sirius), is gone.
The Grim, as we know, was one of Trelawney's favorite, frequented ways to predict Harry's terrible death throughout PoA and beyond. I realize this was supposed to be taken as more of a joke, but I can't help but notice the first time we hear Trelawney make a *good* prediction about Harry is in OotP (reacting to Harry's interview in The Quibbler):
In theory, I wouldn't doubt Trelawney's previous predictions (Harry dies due to Grim omens) from PoA - GoF were no less accurate... but because of an incident (or incidents) specifically in OotP... I wonder if Harry's fate is now completely different? What "incidents", you ask? Sirius' death to name one. Why? Because Sirius was essentially "the Grim". The black spectral dog that haunts graveyards and is an omen of death. More specifically, *Harry's* black spectral dog of death. "The Grim", as of OOTP, is dead. Are there any other incidents in OotP which marked a possible change for Harry? I think there could be a few more.
Harry discovers at the end that it's his "heart" that saves him (from Voldemort). If Harry's "heart" is so very important, could it be a matter of the "heart" - specifically in OotP - which has now changed the outcome of Harry's life dramatically (beginning with OotP)? A matter of the heart possibly in concerns to whom. Of course, perhaps this goes without saying. After all, if Madame Trelawney is more than some "right old fraud", I can't think you'd have twelve kids with someone unless you really loved them. ;)
******
I thought it was all rather convenient and interesting. Sirius and Trelawney both showed up in POA. Also, of course, the same book Trelawney starts making her "Grim" predictions in regards to Harry (but seemingly no one else from what we know. Despite being told Trelawney has predicted a student's death every year since she began working at Hogwarts). It certainly did seem back then things were getting set-up for Harry dying. They still seem set-up that way truthfully speaking. POA is also the same book Harry gets a new broomstick, his Firebolt. If y'all have ever visited Portkey, you would have read about the Firebolt and it's possible metaphoric significance.
However, we come to OotP... Trelawney makes this hysteric prediction about Harry's survival and happy future (the first pleasant thing we've ever heard her "predict" about Harry). The same woman who first gave name to The Grim. Sirius - the Grim animagus - falls through the veil.
We're also being pointed in a more definitive direction of how Harry might be able to defeat Voldemort... something having to do with his heart saving him. Harry's Firebolt is taken away from him... again. As it had been in POA. In POA, taken by Hermione. In OOTP, by Umbridge. Harry has a dream where his Firebolt is mentioned. Poor Dream!Harry says he doesn't have his Firebolt and can't give it to Cho, because Umbridge had it. Who did Dream!Harry say this to? Dream!Hermione (who, just previously, had been Dream!Cho). Very interesting this dream.
Sidenote: I've always loved the idea of Trelawney being this paradox. This character built up as a "right old fraud", but also gives these cryptic, trance-like, *real* predictions. This woman who in all accounts we're not supposed to believe because of the obvious show she likes to put on (her misty voice, the gratuitous gypsy-like appearance, the crazy bug eyes, the overly perfumed classroom, etc). JKR has written her almost as a parody ... but at the same time, the idea JKR could probably or very likely be using the "fraud" Trelawney (and her Divination classroom and homework) to drop real clues of the future plot? Foreshadowing, while not seemingly like she's foreshadowing. She'd also be telling us these things right to our faces, but yet we can't really believe them, can we? It's a "fraud" saying them.
I'm not necessarily thinking there's anything literal per se in connection to Sirius dying and Harry's survival. There could be something to this. Hermione and Mrs. Weasley both did seem to suspect Sirius in regards to Harry's well-being. Despite Sirius wanting to care for Harry like a father, he could have unintentionaly led him down the wrong path, a more reckless path? But with Sirius now dead, the possible ills of his raising Harry is neither here nor there.
This is what Dumbledore says about that particular room in the Department of Mysteries...
It's the actual capitalization on this apparent weakness of Voldemort's which has me - and most everyone I'd think - baffled. How will Harry's "heart" - self-sacrificial love? - ultimately be used to save him? And he will be saved if there is anything to this "Death of the Grim" speculation... but how?
It was Harry's self-sacrificial love for Sirius that forced Voldemort from his body in the MoM attack. Implying this is something Voldemort "detests" (The willingness to give up one's life for another. With Voldemort's fear of death, "Nothing is worse than death", his detesting of this sort of emotion would be understandable). Will it be Harry's self-sacrificial love for someone else - or someone else sacrificing themselves for him - that saves him again? Right now, I'm leaning more towards it being a combination of both (love and self-sacrifice).
If it is Mysteries of Love that are locked in that room in the Department of Mysteries... and the room being described as "more wonderful and more terrible than death".... I'm not exactly sure how we're going to get away from the superangsty (wonderful/terrible) in regards to whom Harry loves or will love the most (including, romantically speaking). For me, this does indicate this "wonderful/terrible" theme will inevitably spill into his romantic life. It wouldn't be a stretch for me to think if it is indeed the power of Love that will save Harry (a possible clue of this salvation in the Grim's death) ... it will be the person he has given his heart, the person he loves the most, that will and likely *must* have a large part in saving him... but this won't remotely be by easy means. ::*snorts* When has anything been easy in HP?:: A romantic love very difficult and painful to come by ... but will be all the stronger in the end for it?
As not to meander this into shipping territory too much, there's honestly only *one* person / relationship that I can think would possibly fit the bill as canon stands currently. Then again, I'm ridiculously biased in regards to my shipping preferences, so don't listen to me! ;)
Then again, with Cho rather conveniently out of the picture in OotP and Ginny purportedly over her crush on Harry? It's anyone's game.... yet some do seem to have a greater advantage than others by the end of OotP.
It will be interesting to find out if the Grim predictions show up in Book 6, at least show up for Harry. Methinks they may not. However, that's not to say the Death Omens may stop for Harry necessarily (his death omens consisted of more than just The Grim, even if that was the primary one), they also may not stop coming for others.
I was wondering if OotP may have marked a very different outcome for Harry in the death of "The Grim"... aka, Sirius.
I'm not entirely certain why, with Sirius gone, Harry would come off better. However, I can't help but remember Hermione's suspicion (with Sirius backing up the DA idea)....
Amer. OotP, Ch. 18, p. 377-378
"I know", said Hermione, twisting her fingers together. "But after talking to Snuffles..."
"But he's all for it!" said Harry.
"Yes," said Hermione, staring at the window again. "Yes, that's what made me think maybe it wasn't a good idea after all...."
[snip]
"You don't think he has become... sort of... reckless... since he's been cooped up in Grimmauld Place? You dont think he's... kind of ... living through us?"
Usually, when Hermione is suspicious of something (in this case, someone), she tends to be right. Barring the Firebolt, which she had only been half-right about. We also see numerous instances where Hermione gives Harry very good advice (the Occlumency, wary of Harry's dreams of Sirius' torture by Voldemort in the MoM, etc), which he ignores, but in retrospect should have heeded. Incidentally, Molly Weasley didn't trust Sirius either.
Then again, it might not necessarily be that Sirius died, but the most resounding symbol of Harry's death, The Grim (personified in Sirius), is gone.
The Grim, as we know, was one of Trelawney's favorite, frequented ways to predict Harry's terrible death throughout PoA and beyond. I realize this was supposed to be taken as more of a joke, but I can't help but notice the first time we hear Trelawney make a *good* prediction about Harry is in OotP (reacting to Harry's interview in The Quibbler):
Amer. OotP, Ch. 26, P. 582-583The prediction was most likely inspired by Trelawney's "hysterical" emotions and might not be percieved as anything legitimate. Then again, I'm not convinced any of Trelawney's predictions - in appearance - are legitimate (barring the trance predictions - in the manner they were written, you're automatically supposed to assume are legit)... however, they still tended to be accurate enough. Crackpot or not. Trelawney's "airy fairyness" some possible misdirection? I do think it's possible.
...Professor Trelawney broke into hysterical sobs during Divination and announced to the startled class, and a very disapproving Umbridge, that Harry was not going to suffer an early death after all, but would live to a ripe old age, become Minister of Magic, and have twelve children.
In theory, I wouldn't doubt Trelawney's previous predictions (Harry dies due to Grim omens) from PoA - GoF were no less accurate... but because of an incident (or incidents) specifically in OotP... I wonder if Harry's fate is now completely different? What "incidents", you ask? Sirius' death to name one. Why? Because Sirius was essentially "the Grim". The black spectral dog that haunts graveyards and is an omen of death. More specifically, *Harry's* black spectral dog of death. "The Grim", as of OOTP, is dead. Are there any other incidents in OotP which marked a possible change for Harry? I think there could be a few more.
Harry discovers at the end that it's his "heart" that saves him (from Voldemort). If Harry's "heart" is so very important, could it be a matter of the "heart" - specifically in OotP - which has now changed the outcome of Harry's life dramatically (beginning with OotP)? A matter of the heart possibly in concerns to whom. Of course, perhaps this goes without saying. After all, if Madame Trelawney is more than some "right old fraud", I can't think you'd have twelve kids with someone unless you really loved them. ;)
******
I thought it was all rather convenient and interesting. Sirius and Trelawney both showed up in POA. Also, of course, the same book Trelawney starts making her "Grim" predictions in regards to Harry (but seemingly no one else from what we know. Despite being told Trelawney has predicted a student's death every year since she began working at Hogwarts). It certainly did seem back then things were getting set-up for Harry dying. They still seem set-up that way truthfully speaking. POA is also the same book Harry gets a new broomstick, his Firebolt. If y'all have ever visited Portkey, you would have read about the Firebolt and it's possible metaphoric significance.
However, we come to OotP... Trelawney makes this hysteric prediction about Harry's survival and happy future (the first pleasant thing we've ever heard her "predict" about Harry). The same woman who first gave name to The Grim. Sirius - the Grim animagus - falls through the veil.
We're also being pointed in a more definitive direction of how Harry might be able to defeat Voldemort... something having to do with his heart saving him. Harry's Firebolt is taken away from him... again. As it had been in POA. In POA, taken by Hermione. In OOTP, by Umbridge. Harry has a dream where his Firebolt is mentioned. Poor Dream!Harry says he doesn't have his Firebolt and can't give it to Cho, because Umbridge had it. Who did Dream!Harry say this to? Dream!Hermione (who, just previously, had been Dream!Cho). Very interesting this dream.
Sidenote: I've always loved the idea of Trelawney being this paradox. This character built up as a "right old fraud", but also gives these cryptic, trance-like, *real* predictions. This woman who in all accounts we're not supposed to believe because of the obvious show she likes to put on (her misty voice, the gratuitous gypsy-like appearance, the crazy bug eyes, the overly perfumed classroom, etc). JKR has written her almost as a parody ... but at the same time, the idea JKR could probably or very likely be using the "fraud" Trelawney (and her Divination classroom and homework) to drop real clues of the future plot? Foreshadowing, while not seemingly like she's foreshadowing. She'd also be telling us these things right to our faces, but yet we can't really believe them, can we? It's a "fraud" saying them.
I'm not necessarily thinking there's anything literal per se in connection to Sirius dying and Harry's survival. There could be something to this. Hermione and Mrs. Weasley both did seem to suspect Sirius in regards to Harry's well-being. Despite Sirius wanting to care for Harry like a father, he could have unintentionaly led him down the wrong path, a more reckless path? But with Sirius now dead, the possible ills of his raising Harry is neither here nor there.
This is what Dumbledore says about that particular room in the Department of Mysteries...
Amer. OotP, Ch. 38
"a force that is at once more wonderful and more terrible than death, than human intelligence, than forces of nature. It is also, perhaps, the most mysterious of the many subjects for study that reside there."
It's the actual capitalization on this apparent weakness of Voldemort's which has me - and most everyone I'd think - baffled. How will Harry's "heart" - self-sacrificial love? - ultimately be used to save him? And he will be saved if there is anything to this "Death of the Grim" speculation... but how?
It was Harry's self-sacrificial love for Sirius that forced Voldemort from his body in the MoM attack. Implying this is something Voldemort "detests" (The willingness to give up one's life for another. With Voldemort's fear of death, "Nothing is worse than death", his detesting of this sort of emotion would be understandable). Will it be Harry's self-sacrificial love for someone else - or someone else sacrificing themselves for him - that saves him again? Right now, I'm leaning more towards it being a combination of both (love and self-sacrifice).
If it is Mysteries of Love that are locked in that room in the Department of Mysteries... and the room being described as "more wonderful and more terrible than death".... I'm not exactly sure how we're going to get away from the superangsty (wonderful/terrible) in regards to whom Harry loves or will love the most (including, romantically speaking). For me, this does indicate this "wonderful/terrible" theme will inevitably spill into his romantic life. It wouldn't be a stretch for me to think if it is indeed the power of Love that will save Harry (a possible clue of this salvation in the Grim's death) ... it will be the person he has given his heart, the person he loves the most, that will and likely *must* have a large part in saving him... but this won't remotely be by easy means. ::*snorts* When has anything been easy in HP?:: A romantic love very difficult and painful to come by ... but will be all the stronger in the end for it?
As not to meander this into shipping territory too much, there's honestly only *one* person / relationship that I can think would possibly fit the bill as canon stands currently. Then again, I'm ridiculously biased in regards to my shipping preferences, so don't listen to me! ;)
Then again, with Cho rather conveniently out of the picture in OotP and Ginny purportedly over her crush on Harry? It's anyone's game.... yet some do seem to have a greater advantage than others by the end of OotP.
It will be interesting to find out if the Grim predictions show up in Book 6, at least show up for Harry. Methinks they may not. However, that's not to say the Death Omens may stop for Harry necessarily (his death omens consisted of more than just The Grim, even if that was the primary one), they also may not stop coming for others.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2004-05-28 06:47 pm (UTC)Let's hope he does live a long, happy life with twelve kids, eh?
Hallo!
Date: 2004-06-02 03:59 am (UTC)Re: Hallo!
Date: 2004-06-03 11:55 pm (UTC)Whatever floats your boat. :)