spn - 5.18 - point of no return

[retro_eidas]

• I love how Heaven is this mix between stringent Corporation, Militaristic Society and mired all together in a general dystopia (and then there's the Dionysian place the Cupids all hang out in, but they seem to be the black sheep of Heaven. "No one likes it"). Dean and Sam are the rebel savages trying to take down the Society from the outside, while Cas is the rebel, grunt/peon who comes from within and all of them help tear down the whole system (the Guy Montag, Neo, Winston Smith, Cleric Preston, etc). ... And most likely, probably kill Daddy too (or at least the things done in his name and/or using his power). Zachariah was just been the start.
  
  
• I loved how it took the combined forces of human (Sam & Bobby) and divine (Cas) to try to stop Dean. They meet in the middle for Dean.
  
  
• I loved how Cas' eyes never left Dean the whole time they were in Bobby's study. As if he thinks Dean will just scamper away under his nose... which Dean sort of did. Though it was Cas doing the (forced) scampering.
  
  
• Now I loved me some Dean/Cas like crazy in this ep, but as it stands with Show, it was Sam that (rightly) seemed to make the biggest impact on Dean to change his mind. Sam, despite some anger issues, has always been the more well-adjusted of the brothers, so it makes sense he'd be the Voice of Reason (even if, I do sort of agree with Adam, a lot of the same, stiff-upper-lip, We Gotta Stick Together! speeches of old are losing their luster, Sammy needs some new material). Sam as the chief representation of humanity, of Dean's humanity, and Dean being the chosen hero of this quest. Dean looked at his human brothers, Adam and then Sam, and realized he couldn't give up. Dean still has his sword for humanity, bitches. And anyone else who does are also his brothers.
  
  
  
• However and despite the Sam-Cas coop, as it stands, Dean and Cas still have the craziest, most intense relationship this season. Easily one of the most intense relationships Dean's ever had, next to Sam and John. Which is pretty effing huge considering it's Sam and John who literally forged the person Dean is and define him. Granted, Cas still had that stoic, angelic control over his emotions back then, but even after the deep betrayal of Uriel, who he'd fought side-by-side with for eons, he didn't react anywhere near as passionately or as angrily as he did with Dean in this ep. For good or bad, Dean brings out all that humanity in Cas and as we see with the other angels and their tactics, humanity that's there with the rest of them, they just pretend it isn't. However, it's also that capacity for mercy (that humans tend to display more than most angels we've seen) that held Cas back. Giving Dean stomach cancer won't work, beating him to a pulp won't work and thus the ways of Cas' brethren won't work on Dean. When Cas realizes that, if he hasn't already, that will probably add a whole new dimension to their relationship. Or we might get a hug out of it at least, pretty please writers?!?! They're practically married, as is! Just send them to Iowa already, dammit!!
  
  
• "Not for nothing, Cas, but the last time someone looked at me like that - I got laid." And that's when the porn soundtrack kicked on in my head. If Cas sticks around for S6, I'm not even shamed to admit hoping the "Being Human" remake fails hard. 1) The BBC version doesn't need a remake 2) Jeremy Carver can stay around and go on enabling these filthybadwrong fannish habits. Just a cursory glance at the new stuff on deancastiel? Oh, all that new delicious enabling!
  
  
  
• And unless Dean's been getting some on the side, the last person that laid him was the other, non-Lucifer rebel angel. Come on, Dean!! You know you want to make it a nice pair!
  
  
• "I rebelled for this?!" I can understand Cas' indignation and anger, especially considering one of the things that Dean said to Cas to get him to rebel in the first place was, "You know what's real? People. Families. That's real. And you're going to watch them all burn?!" Except here it would have been Dean's choice to watch these very same families burn. Yes yes, he believes it's a stop-loss measure to keep more people from dying, except he seems to neglect the fact it would be by way of mass murder and he'd be the one with the hand on the big red button of doom. If Cas is a little angry at Dean's turn around, again, I don't blame him. I don't condone what Cas did, anymore than the times Dean and Sam have fought it out, but I understand it.
  
  Required pic is required. Also you know Cas is an angel, he can make his hands disappear into Dean's pants like magic.
  
  
• I'm not entirely certain what Dean expected to hear outside of the Muffler Factory in Van Nuys, but he seems surprised Cas has lost faith in him. Or maybe he was taken aback just how devoted Cas is in the cause into him? When will the tortured Chosen One wake-up?? It makes me all the more curious how Cas will react realizing Dean didn't say yes... a reaction Show will probably cheat us out of. Blah.
  
  "Isn't that suicide?" "Maybe it is, but then I wouldn't have to watch you fail." O.T.P. ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥
  
  
• I know Show isn't exactly subtle or infrequent with the messianic imagery either, but yeah, looks like Cas is the newest edition (in the center of cruciform light spokes)? IIRC, Cas was also standing under (and over) that "Jesus Saves" marquee in 5.10 (AAH). I still think Dean will be The Jesus of the story, but Team Free Will obviously isn't immune to it either.
  
  More Jesus symbolism? Must be Thursday.
  
  
• My comadre-in-spec thesnowleopard has called for some time now that Dean would be the one to kill Zachariah. She was right on the money. He killed Zach so righteously too.
  
  Dean and the divine death-light in his eyes. I wonder if this means he can see Cas naked now?
  Apart from it being BAMF liek whoa, Zach, up until 5.18, had been one of the chief faces and enforcers of the totalitarian patriarchy that is Heaven. I'd say that were Michael, but he's only made the one appearance (though paltry his cameos, even then, it was in the form of the deadbeat patriarchy, as John). The chief rep/enforcer of deadbeat Daddy Heaven... and Dean killed him. Watched Zach burn with his eyes wide open. Maybe Dean's an ordinary man who so happens to be the hero of the story who gets to do the Big Heroic Things, but after something like that? I'm really not so certain, but I haven't been so certain about Dean's being 100% full-blooded human for some time. What is Dean? The Jesus anvils have been banging hard for him for awhile, however, Uriel's line still echoes in my head. "The only thing that can kill an angel is another angel." Which had been true up until this ep. If Dean is any angel, it's obviously not Lucifer or Michael, but possibly this guy who plays a big role in Armageddon and hasn't showed up yet (unless that's Death, which it could be). I love we got the creepy/cool Dean laser eyes after Dean recaptured his inner-rebel too. Which only makes me more thinky, not less.
  
  
• I don't really care one way or another about Adam himself, but I'd like to see him come out of this, if only for Dean's and Sam's sake. Get to know the little brother they never could (thanks for that, John).
  
  
• "You can't fight city hall." Oh yeah, Mike? Team Free Will are about to go V for Vendetta on your totalitarian ass!
  
  I see no reason: Why the Gunpowder Treason: Should ever be forgot.

Comments

[sailorhathor.livejournal.com]

Is Jared wearing pink eyeshadow there? His eyelids are so delightfully pink.

Yes, here I am with the ridiculous questions.

[eido.livejournal.com]

IDK, but it might match what looks like lipstick he has on in some of the caps of that scene. Lipstick he put on in the dark.

[sailorhathor.livejournal.com]

>> Lipstick he put on in the dark

ROFL! Makes me think of that commercial where the guy says he wants some Chap-stick, and his wife offers her purse, and he blindly reaches his hand in and gets lipstick instead of Chap-stick, puts it on, and sits there rubbing his lips together with bright red lipstick all over his mouth. XD "It pays to double-check."

[littlebit-liz.livejournal.com]

Oh wow, the whole 'only an angel can kill another angel' had totally slipped my mind. Definitely makes me wonder about Dean!

[eido.livejournal.com]

Maybe the writers forgot about that line (or it was just Uriel's arrogance), but it had been true, what we actually see of angel killings, up until Dean skewers Zachariah. Though if it was just that I might have handwaved it as typical Winchester thrillin' heroics, but it's that on top of a bunch of little and not-so-little odd things about Dean cumulatively that has me very o.O about what or who Dean might be. I'd guess it's at least the stature of an angel, but it's likely something greater considering it's Dean the one meant to stop Lucifer and he's already killed Zach (so either a scary-powerful angel or something that outranks them).

Also how often heroes in mythic stories usually have something odd or off about them. Sometimes they are just regular folks, but most of the time it's the hero having to come to realizing and coming to terms with his/her godly half and embracing it as part of him/herself to complete whatever quest. At this stage, if Dean is something, he hasn't even realized what he is. Or maybe he has, he just hasn't consciously faced up to it yet? IDK IDK

[cherryshadowz.livejournal.com]

Stop having ridiculously good reaction posts~

Um...what to say? Usually Im a little more coherent but today I think I will go with Sam being Dean's humanity sounded kinda cheesy the first time I heard it. It was of course outta context and I wasn't sold on SPN at the time but I feel it really works because...well uh duh right?

Dean being a ~special~ messiah is intriguing and the having angel bits not what I meant inside him would be...different. A good different (only not so different, oh tropes!)

And the Dean/Castiel was so in your face last night but you quoted one of my favorite bits~

"Isn't that suicide?"

"Maybe it is, but then I wouldn't have to watch you fail."

Said a hell of a lot more than 'Blow Me' or the Laid line ever could.

[eido.livejournal.com]

Um...what to say? Usually Im a little more coherent but today I think I will go with Sam being Dean's humanity sounded kinda cheesy the first time I heard it.

Oh, it is, but shit, it's better than Surprise!Lisa and the possibility of the convenient heteronormative prize after Dean saves the world. Frankly, I'd wonder why they didn't just put a big bow on her head for Deano.

Dean being a ~special~ messiah is intriguing and the having angel bits not what I meant inside him would be...different. A good different (only not so different, oh tropes!)

Yeah, Dean's the "special" messiah, he's like Hells Angel Jesus. XD At least he is now again, now that he's stopped acting like a cunt.

And the Dean/Castiel was so in your face last night but you quoted one of my favorite bits

Which made me mad flaily and you're so right about how much those lines said, but then I got depressed thinking about Future!Cas and he actually did watch Dean fail, yet live on as a manifestation of that failure. A pair of hollow men that just went on. Didn't help either Dean was wearing Future!Dean's jacket most of the ep. :(

[cherryshadowz.livejournal.com]

it's better than Surprise!Lisa and the possibility of the convenient heteronormative prize after Dean saves the world

Not depressing and a slap to the face at all!

I got depressed thinking about Future!Cas and he actually did watch Dean fail, yet live on as a manifestation of that failure. A pair of hollow men that just went on. Didn't help either Dean was wearing Future!Dean's jacket most of the ep. :(

Augh you're so right, he didn't say yes but he sold out in many other ways. That wasn't even Dean anymore, no wonder Castiel become that. And wow I so didn't catch that, good job!

[cherryshadowz.livejournal.com]

Wait I just remember, he did try to say yes and they told him too late! :\

[eido.livejournal.com]

Yeah, Future!Dean said yes many times. Though maybe it's a testament to Cas' feelings for Dean, Cas still didn't leave, but then maybe he had no where else to go by that point and was too depowered/lacked confidence in his abilities to fight off the zombies by himself.

Though the one thing that remains true for that Cas and the current one, they'll knowingly go on a suicide mission if it means helping Dean. Though that's epic like an epic thing (he's lost faith in Dean, but he went into that warehouse anyway), that's also ... disconcerting to say the least. Cas just keeps on dying for Dean and one of these times he's just not going to come back. :(

[cherryshadowz.livejournal.com]

Though the one thing that remains true for that Cas and the current one, they'll knowingly go on a suicide mission if it means helping Dean. Though that's epic like an epic thing (he's lost faith in Dean, but he went into that warehouse anyway), that's also ... disconcerting to say the least. Cas just keeps on dying for Dean and one of these times he's just not going to come back. :(

:| I think it's interesting that Dean is always affected deeply by losing people and when you put how many times Castiel has gone kamikaze for him into that context it's...strange. I'm not sure how to even process it at this point Dean still seems to acknowledge it as a sacrifice but in the 5.04 future he actually tries to use that knowledge. It's very disturbing and telling of just how well Dean knows Castiel.

[eido.livejournal.com]

In "The End", Cas really didn't seem much more than a tool to that Dean. Though Dean still managed to get pissed-off and indignant at Cas laughing at Past!Dean's jokes? Didn't really give a shit about Cas, but still possessive/territorial as hell re: his second-in-command? Talk about mixed signals. But I really want to see that past!Dean again, the one who was horrified at F!Dean even considering sacrificing Cas like that and set apart Cas from just the "friends" category. I really want to see that Dean again. Hopefully after the 5.18 turn around at the end, we will see him again. AND get a proper reunion between Dean and Cas. Though I'm sure it's a futile hope. Blah, writers.

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

'Oh, it is, but shit, it's better than Surprise!Lisa and the possibility of the convenient heteronormative prize after Dean saves the world. Frankly, I'd wonder why they didn't just put a big bow on her head for Deano.'
Don't say that too loud, you might give the writers ideas. If they do put Dean in a contrived romance with Lisa like she's some prize (personally I think Dean is in love with the IDEA of Lisa and a normal life) and has waited for Dean all these years even though she barely knew him, that may stop me from watching all together. I've stopped watching shows for so much less.

[eido.livejournal.com]

The Idea thing only really makes sense to me as I don't believe the writers have earned anything else, but I don't entirely trust them making suggestions about Lisa & Ben I feel aren't really there with Dean's arc. I am hoping - Dean possibly the Shadow (American Gods) equivalent of SPN - Lisa is Dean's Sam Black Crow and he goes back to her, but sees her happy with someone else. And he's perfectly fine with that because A) He realizes he doesn't really know her B) She represents all the family he saved from stopping Luci and her & Ben being alive and well is enough for him. Then he drives off into the sunset with Sam (and Cas dammit) back to Bobby's to fight another day and Lisa stays exactly what she is, the Idea. But again, I don't really trust them.

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

'I am hoping - Dean possibly the Shadow (American Gods) equivalent of SPN - Lisa is Dean's Sam Black Crow and he goes back to her, but sees her happy with someone else.'
Like at the end of Roadkill? I could see that.

'But again, I don't really trust them.'
Yeah, me neither. I'm even more worried now that Sera Gamble is show runner; she did write that Titanic inspired love scene for Dean. The whole reason Supernatural is the only CW show I watch is because it doesn't have romance; I find Dean's relationships with Sam and Cas much more interesting than some sappy romance.

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

'What is Dean?'
In Dark Side of The Moon Dean's I Wuv Hugs shirt at a bear on it making it a 'Huggy Bear' shirt and it was under his regular flannel shirt, so maybe that was the writers attempt at foreshadowing that there is an angel inside him. Someone also pointed out to me that Dean was staying at Mike's Travel Motel in the beginning of this episode.

'If Cas sticks around for S6, I'm not even shamed to admit hoping the "Being Human" remake fails hard. 1) The BBC version doesn't need a remake 2) Jeremy Carver can stay around and go on enabling these filthybadwrong fannish habits.'
This!

'When Cas realizes that, if he hasn't already, that will probably add a whole new dimension to their relationship. Or we might get a hug out of it at least, pretty please writers?!?!'
I vote for hugs.

[eido.livejournal.com]

Or that Dean was not unlike Anna and was always an angel. Though I'm LOLing at spec being made based on Dean's teddy bear t-shirt. Oh spec-crazy fandom, there are times you are cute and awesome! XD

Hugs are a moral imperative as far as I'm concerned. For srs. They've already expressed intense emotion via physical violence, so Cas can't be properly adopted into the tribe unless there's manly, Winchester hug initiation of some sort. And Dean best be the one to do it (Cas has died for him enough), just sayin'.

Though looking at your icon, it reminds me. Thanks to 22by7, one of the comics pairings that D/C reminds me of is Apollo/Midnighter from "The Authority". Super-strong Apollo also got pissed as hell at not-nearly-as-invulnerable Midnighter (he kissed another guy) and Apollo punched him right through a wall (or possibly several walls). Oh those passionate superhero pairings, so damn violent!

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

'They've already expressed intense emotion via physical violence, so Cas can't be properly adopted into the tribe unless there's manly, Winchester hug initiation of some sort. And Dean best be the one to do it (Cas has died for him enough), just sayin'.'
I know! Dean always seems upset when other people die for him but when it comes to Cas he's like 'Cas might die again? Meh, it must be Thursday'. Give your angel a hug, Dean.

'Oh those passionate superhero pairings, so damn violent!'
Oh, you don't have to tell me.

[ibroketuesday.livejournal.com]

JEREMY CARVER MIGHT BE LEAVING?! D: D: D: wtf, no. He is a main source of Dean/Cas. Bad, bad!

I do hope we get to see what happens with Cas when he learns that Dean didn't say yes, but honestly, even if they patch it over, it'll be okay with me. I just hope they're alright and that Dean has earned Castiel's faith back.

[eido.livejournal.com]

Yeah, he's off to showrun the "Being Human" remake with his wife. Its doubtful he'll have the time to be giving us our D/C fixes after this. :(

It isn't only just Dean not saying yes, but it's also the killing of Zachariah which would def be relevant to Cas' interests and might be worthy of a reaction. Though I'm not really expecting to see one or at least not of the actual reveal. THO OMG I'D LOVE IT IF WE DID! Then Cas is all awed, admiring and gazing at Dean o hai hot, reverent eye-sexin. lawl

[ibroketuesday.livejournal.com]

That is terrible and I disapprove.

Yeah, I really doubt we'll see the actual reveal, but I expect we'll be able to extrapolate one from Castiel's disposition afterward and that ought to be enough for me!

[dragon-faere.livejournal.com]

So... I just watched this episode less than an hour ago and I laughed so hard when Dean said,

"Not for nothing, Cas, but the last time someone looked at me like that - I got laid."

I just - my brain broke. 8D

I do hope we get to see more Adam (again with the names!) and did believe for a moment that Heaven had chosen the 3rd brother since their first choice wasn't going so well. But as it turns out, he was just bait. Poor fucking kid, I want him back so he can join the family bandwagon!

And Dean killing Zachariah? BAMF.

[eido.livejournal.com]

And all I could think was, "I'm pretty certain that's not the first time Cas has looked at Dean like that." He's always giving Dean the bedroom eyes. ;)

I'd like the brothers to have their baby brother around, maybe he can live with Bobby or something? Dean seems to be getting all broody, maybe mentoring a new bb bro will give him his fix? Not the biggest fan of Dean/Lisa+Ben domestic bliss TBH

So very BAMF. However, I seriously think Dean really is more than he appears to be. He's the first human to kill an angel.