SPN & Equilibrium

[retro_eidas]

I'm sure there's similarities to other dystopian stories like Fahrenheit 451 or 1984, but I'd just been watching "Equilibrium" and the whole emotionless dystopian world there seems similar to what Kripke was going for with some of the descriptions of angels and angel society. Though funny, Castiel was the only really emotionally-challenged one of all the angels. Maybe Anna somewhat after her Heel Face Turn. Otherwise the angels are hardly emotionless "marble statues". Heh. I don't know if that's supposed to say what a good little soldier Castiel was before Dean came along or Kripke just felt like fanboying "Equilibrium" one or two eps and promptly forgot about it in favor of angels as emo, smug bastards or dicks?

DUPONT: The Grammaton Cleric, whose sole task it is to seek out and eradicate the true source of man's inhumanity to man - his ability to feel.

PRESTON: There's no war. No murder.
PARTRIDGE: What is it you think we do?
PRESTON: No. You've been with me, you've seen how it can be - the jealousy, rage.
PARTRIDGE: A heavy cost. I pay it gladly.
Equilibrium

ANNA: I mean it. Every emotion, Dean, even the bad ones... It's why I fell. It's why... Why I'd give anything not to have to go back. Anything.

ANNA: Perfect... Like a marble statue. Cold... No choice... Only obedience.
Heaven & Hell

****

PRESTON: I'll do what I can to see they go easy on you.
PARTRIDGE: We both know they never "go easy".
PRESTON: Then, I'm sorry.
PARTRIDGE: No, you're not. You don't even know the meaning. Its just a vestigial word for a feeling you've never felt.
Equilibrium

CASTIEL: I'm sorry.
ANNA: No. you're not. Not really. You don't know the feeling.
Heaven & Hell

****

MARY: Let me ask you something.
[Grabs his hand]
MARY: Why are you alive?
PRESTON: [Breaks free] I'm alive... I live... to safeguard the continuity of this great society. To serve Libria.
MARY: It's circular. You exist to continue your existence. What's the point?
PRESTON: What's the point of your existence?
MARY: To feel. 'Cause you've never done it, you can never know it. But it's as vital as breath. And without it, without love, without anger, without sorrow, breath is just a clock... ticking.
Equilibrium

CASTIEL: You try to understand - this is long foretold. This is your...
DEAN: Destiny? Don't give me that "holy" crap. Destiny, God's plan... It's all a bunch of lies, you poor, stupid son of a bitch! It's just a way for your bosses to keep me and keep you in line! You know what's real? People, families - that's real. And you're gonna watch them all burn?
CASTIEL: What is worth saving?! I see nothing but pain here. I see inside you. I see your guilt, your anger, confusion... In Paradise all is forgiven. You'll be at peace. Even with Sam.
DEAN: You can take your peace... and shove it up your lily-white ass. 'Cause I'll take the pain and the guilt. I'll even take Sam as is. It's a lot better than being some Stepford bitch in Paradise. This is simple, Cas! No more crap about being a good soldier. There's a right and there's a wrong here and you know it. [Forces Cas around to face him] Look at me! You know it.
Lucifer Rising



****

DUPONT: No? Don't look so surprised, Preston. Why should Father be more real than any other political puppet? The real Father died years ago. The Council simply elected me to pursue his paternal tradition.
Equilibrium

ZACHARIAH: Grunts on the ground, we couldn't just tell 'em the whole truth. We'd have a full-scale rebellion on our hands. I mean, think about it, would we really let sixty-five seals get broken, unless Senior Management wanted it that way?

DEAN: Tell me something. Where's God in all this?
ZACHARIAH: God? God has left the building.
Lucifer Rising

****

DUPONT: It is not the will of the Council, it is the will of Father -- and he is law.

DUPONT: You must understand, Preston, that while you -- and even I -- may not always agree with it, it is not the message that is important, it is our obedience to it. Father's will. Call it faith.
Equilibrium

MICHAEL: From the beginning, he knew this was how it was going to end.
DEAN: And you're just going to do whatever God says?
MICHAEL: Yes. Because I am a good son.
DEAN: Huh. Yeah well, trust me, take it from someone who knows, that is a dead end street.
MICHAEL: And you think you know better, than my father? One, unimportant little man? What makes you think you get to choose?
The Song Remains The Same

Comments

[cherryshadowz.livejournal.com]

I have no idea what this is but it sounds absolutely fascinating. :)

[eido.livejournal.com]

"Equilibrium" is worth a watch, I think. It's definitely a Saturday night beer and popcorn sort of movie.

[thandie.livejournal.com]

Wow, I have even vidded Equilibrium (I don't like this movie tbh, but it has some great scenes) and I had not thought of the parallels. It makes kinda sense, and I'd have liked Preston!Castiel very much, if they had actually decided to explore better than kind of characterization.

[eido.livejournal.com]

Wow, I have even vidded Equilibrium (I don't like this movie tbh, but it has some great scenes)

Kind of agree on "Equilibrium". I'm always looking for decent dystopian movies and I love the look of it, but plot-wise it's just ok. The "gunkata" thing, tho providing some great action scenes, sucked any threat out of the villains. It made them look worse than the Stormtroopers, some just stood there waiting for Preston to kill them. Ugh

It makes kinda sense, and I'd have liked Preston!Castiel very much

Not dropping hints at all, but it probably would make for an awesome SPN/Equilibrium fusion vid. There are some similar sequences and dialogue between the movie and SPN. Not even bias due to my OTP, but some of the Preston/Mary and Castiel/Dean scenes did seem very similar. Namely after Mary figures out Preston isn't doping anymore.

if they had actually decided to explore better than kind of characterization.

Instead they have barely done anything development-wise from the Heaven side of things. They've described it as dystopian more than once, but almost little to nothing from the character it would have the most impact (Castiel). We know so little about Castiel's background despite the fact he's a new main character that's been around since the beginning of S4. I'd really like to know what exactly he sacrificed for Dean and humanity.

[thandie.livejournal.com]

That's the problem with SPN: they actually have good ideas some times, but they always fail to explore them. Castiel is an amazing character that was unforgivably wasted IMO, I still remember the hype around him when he first appeared, and how excited I was too...but then they started changing him without giving logical explanations, without ever making us see what's inside his mind, assuming he has one that fully works (because as much as I like him, I can't never understand what he thinks about, if he thinks at all.)
Well, the ONLY explanation was that he fell for Dean (or because Dean convinced him of something)...but do we ever see that explained? Or at least made clear? No.

I don't know, so far he's done a lot of walking around and squinting at people, but I can't understand, for the life of me, where they want to go with him. :/

I'm bitter because I care. <3

[eido.livejournal.com]

I feel like we're having to infer way too much about Cas for someone that's supposed to be a new co-lead. Which is really unfortunate since, from where I'm sitting, there's a plot gold mine there and Misha can more than hold his own at whatever they throw at him. Probably because they're too afraid to definitely step into Heaven territory, so they're pussyfooting around Cas' background. Too afraid to make it too mundane or maybe they won't make it esoteric/celestial enough. However, they're already basically described Heaven like 1984, so I don't know why they're getting cold feet now, unless it's some money issue again.

However, I have been pretty disappointed with this season in general, Cas' development/how they're using him is only part of it. I've mentioned in other posts, but as an SPN season it's been ok (season 4 was better), but judging it from a strictly apocalyptic fic standpoint? It's been poor. I'm futilely hoping they might deliver with post-apocalypse in season 6 (maybe if/when Cas falls for good to keep him but remove him from being too much of a deus ex machina, finally and actually tell us what exactly he gave up for this new life), but from everything I'm hearing, it sounds like they're going to pull some sort of reset. That's not lazy writing 101 or anything. Eh.

[thandie.livejournal.com]

It's nice to hear someone that has an identical view to mine on this season. There have been good episodes, that's fore sure, but they don't even TALK about the apocalypse anymore...or they just talk about it and then nothing happens, how can one be content with an apocalypse handled like that? I knew they don't have budget, but not all good stories need money, they just need good ideas, like The End. That one didn't require money at all to be filmed, not more than usual I mean (thanks to that Watchmen set), but it was fantastic!
I can't believe they prefer making endless fillers, and think we'll just suck it up.

And I'm not sure I can buy a post-apoc season 6 if I have not seen an apocalypse in season 5, so I'm still pretty unsure about that. The reset is not a classy move, seriously, but at least I have hope that they'll manage to cook up some decent storyline if they are not pressured by apocalypse/budget concerns.

Yeah, and let's not even touch the Castiel subject...you have said exactly what was in my mind, and they are basically ruining him like they did with Anna.

[eido.livejournal.com]

how can one be content with an apocalypse handled like that?

I realize the apocalypse as described in Revelation lasted years, but that's just not compelling TV. I wasn't expecting explosions every ep, but some level of intensity to remain consistent throughout the season. I've noticed a lot of criticism about this season seeming uneven and I agree with that. It's like they keep breaking the flow of the greater story they said they were going to tell. Hell, even last season felt more steadily intense and mounting than this. The Apocalypse just doesn't feel threatening at all.

not all good stories need money, they just need good ideas

Agree with that completely. This season is when they should have gotten creative, but that just hasn't happened. Instead of they sparsed out the apocalypse to a few select eps. They should have spread it out throughout the whole season. I also still think they made a mistake in not opening S5 with a bigger statement with Lucifer (http://eido.livejournal.com/143023.html). They could have done that without actually having to show any massive destruction either and blowing their whole budget, it's setting the tone and feel and everyone in the world would have felt that. Even if they were unaware of the actual cause. Haven't any of the producers or writers seen La Jetee (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056119/) or When the Wind Blows (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090315/)? Those stories are extremely emotionally effective and devastating, but there were no constant explosions. Which I think is partly the problem. I think Kripke was too convinced he had to give us something like "Independence Day" every ep, but that's just wasn't the case. He always was more reliant on the humanistic side of SPN, but it's unfortunate that seems to have gone the wayside with, of all things, the apocalypse storyline and it really, really didn't have to be that way.

A bigger statement with Lucifer would have also driven home hard what Dean and Sam are facing and the need to fight and win. That would have even made what was essentially the fix-it they pulled on Dean & Sam's estrangement more palatable or at least understandable. There are things indeed bigger than them and their personal problems and those would have had to come first. The way they did it, it just felt like a cheat and did no favors to the emotional integrity of their relationship.

And I'm not sure I can buy a post-apoc season 6 if I have not seen an apocalypse in season 5

I think if they finally buckled down and got creative/saved their money and we got what an equivalent of an apocalyptic movie from 5x20-5x22? A post-apocalyptic s6 could work. They could even go back to an s1 kind of theme and tone. MOTWs every other ep and the brothers' with more levity in their rel'p. With all or most of the big bads dealt with, there really wouldn't be much threat but the clean-up and all the brothers would have is each other, especially if the world is a lot more barren than it had been in S1 c/o the apocalypse (they finally and hopefully decide to show us).

Do I really think that's going to happen? Nope. Srsly tho, The Road Warrior the series plus monster-fighting really wouldn't cost that much to do. If the planet took a really hard hit from Michael vs. Lucifer, they wouldn't have to hire that many extras either. It would just be Dean and Sam (and *crosses fingers* Castiel and Bobby) pretty much. I could see how this could work, but again, I just don't think they're going that direction. How this season has been going and some of the possible story stuff I've been hearing about S6, I unfortunately expect a big red reset button pushed, possibly by way of Jesse.

[thandie.livejournal.com]

"an equivalent of an apocalyptic movie from 5x20-5x22"
I'm thinking this is likely to happen. Even because ffom the looks of it they are saving money at the moment...I don't know how it works with this, can they save money for following eps or do the money they don't use every week get sent back?

If they at least cook up a good finale maybe I can forgive them how they wrote the rest, but I have doubts.
Kripke has got his merits sure, but like you said he's more the Independence Day kind of writer...he's not one for subtle.

[eido.livejournal.com]

I don't think I could forgive them (I still haven't forgiven them for 4x09/4x10), but a decent finale might make s6 make more sense. Cuz I have a feeling I'll probably be tuning in for at least part of it (especially if Cas is still around). *sighs*

I imagine the money would get sent back, especially from the CW side of things. God forbid Dawn O misses out on even a penny on the newest failed tweeny drivel series (I hear "Melrose Place" won't be coming back).

[22by7.livejournal.com]

And I'm not sure I can buy a post-apoc season 6 if I have not seen an apocalypse in season 5, so I'm still pretty unsure about that. The reset is not a classy move, seriously, but at least I have hope that they'll manage to cook up some decent storyline if they are not pressured by apocalypse/budget concerns.

On top of all this, apparently Sera Gamble is going to be showrunner. So more Dean crying and Sam shirtless funtimes, yay!

[thandie.livejournal.com]

LOL at that. To be honest I'm thinking that maybe if she stays away more from the direct scripts writing and is in charge of giving directions the show could gain from this.
Sure, it could also mean that the boys will develop lady parts in season 6, but I'm willing to give her my trust for now. At least, if she takes over, we could hope to see less characters dying (it's Kripke that likes to kill off characters he has no use for) and more slashy goodness. :P

I'll add you right back!

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

'However, I have been pretty disappointed with this season in general, Cas' development/how they're using him is only part of it. I've mentioned in other posts, but as an SPN season it's been ok (season 4 was better), but judging it from a strictly apocalyptic fic standpoint? It's been poor.'
Hear! Hear! To say I've been disappointed with the non-Apocalypse would be an understatement. They could have at least tried harder to tie it into their standalone episodes. I'm hoping season six will be better but I'm a little worried because Kripke stepped down as show runner.

'it sounds like they're going to pull some sort of reset. That's not lazy writing 101 or anything. Eh.'
I've heard that too. I heard that season six is going to have even more standalone MOTW episodes than this season. What exactly was the point of the Apocalypse again?

[eido.livejournal.com]

Hear! Hear! To say I've been disappointed with the non-Apocalypse would be an understatement.

And no one on the writing staff (well, Edlund maybe) are a Neil Gaiman or Terry Pratchett, they can't get away with the anti-climactic apocalypse a la Good Omens. Even that would have to take a very talented and careful hand if it ever were adapted. This creative team just doesn't have it in them. They haven't forgotten how to make SPN, but I wouldn't trust a single one of them within 10 ft of a decent apocalyptic adaptation.

They could have at least tried harder to tie it into their standalone episodes.

I was whining about it for awhile and to thandie above, but I think they really did make a mistake in not opening the season much bigger. We wouldn't have had to see any of it, but something that jarred the world to the point it could be felt by everyday citizens. You know, the people Dean and Sam and Cas would be meeting all the time and those they're trying to save (one of the cornerstones of that humanistic story that Kripke says he prefers and loves so much). These people wouldn't have had to know the truth about why whatever devastation happened, but it still would have been keenly emotionally effecting. Whatever incident and the reverberations of it obviously impacting the lead characters the most and mounting from the reactions of the world around them. What did Lucifer do? Harass some guy we just met. Terrible, yes, and Mark Pelligrino is a fine actor, but that just wasn't apocalyptic at all.

I've heard that too. I heard that season six is going to have even more standalone MOTW episodes than this season. What exactly was the point of the Apocalypse again?

I'm telling you, if they pull some big reset, I'm really not sure how motivated I'll be to tune into next season.

[22by7.livejournal.com]

You know, the people Dean and Sam and Cas would be meeting all the time

CASTIEL MEETS PEOPLE OTHER THAN WINCHESTERS? LOL U CRAY CRAY

[eido.livejournal.com]

He has had scenes with Ellen, Jo, Chastity (off screen mostly) and Anna. That's something mebbe?

[love-jackianto.livejournal.com]

'What did Lucifer do? Harass some guy we just met. Terrible, yes, and Mark Pelligrino is a fine actor, but that just wasn't apocalyptic at all.'
That is what gets me, the times when they do deal with the apocalypse it seems like it takes place in a vaccume.

'They haven't forgotten how to make SPN, but I wouldn't trust a single one of them within 10 ft of a decent apocalyptic adaptation.'
So true. I had such high hope for the apocalypse but it's not a bang but a whimper.

'I'm telling you, if they pull some big reset, I'm really not sure how motivated I'll be to tune into next season.'
I feel the same way, to go back like the apocalypse never even happened after all that build up would be more lazy writing than I could probably stomach, but than I'm having trouble getting motivated to watch this season. It's not just the anti-climactic apocalypse but also the writing has been so inconsistent this season that the characters sometimes feel like the bad-fanfic versions of themselves (Dean in particular) and a lot of time the writers just skim the surface and don't tell us anything we didn't already know about the characters (we've known Dean was dead inside since season two). Or in Castiel's case they don't tell us much of anything about him at all.

[22by7.livejournal.com]

I'm bitter because I care. <3

Sing it.

I've lost count of the number of times I stayed up till 6 am indignant and infuriated on Castiel's behalf. :obligatory SRS BIZNES joke:

I'm adding you, if that's okay?

[godofstrife.livejournal.com]

Man, Equilibrium is one of my all time favorite films. I had thought of the similarities, but seeing it all spelled out and accounted for is fascinating.

You know what I want now? Exactly, a fusion between Equilibrium and SPN with Cas in Preston's role and Dean in Mary's. I wish I had my own personal writer.

[eido.livejournal.com]

seeing it all spelled out and accounted for is fascinating.

Sometimes the dialogue, and even situation behind it, was practically word for word. Namely that Preston-Partridge and Castiel-Anna scene above. Anna's whole spiel about what angels are like already had me tagging Heaven as dystopic, but the distinct similarities to an actual dystopian story drove it in more. Heaven is Orwellian, bb!

You know what I want now? Exactly, a fusion between Equilibrium and SPN with Cas in Preston's role and Dean in Mary's.

I think it already exists tbh, it's called Lucifer Rising. Dean!Mary realizing Cas!Preston is teetering on the emotional/human side of things, so presses and pushes until s/he can affirm it. One of the characters even died (though it was Cas!Preston as opposed to Dean!Mary, he got better though ;) Unlike poor Mary who got the martyr death). You could even say Dean's "That was for my friend, Cas. You son of a bitch" was all too similar to Preston's "I'll pay it gladly" right before shooting DuPont in the chest at the end. That angry, revenge-fueled line in honor of the fallen martyr (loved one) who helped the hero and helped change him.

[godofstrife.livejournal.com]

And Anna is technically not the only angel who confirmed that Heaven is not just sitting on cloud counting daisies, every other angel we've meat is disillusioned with Heaven, its order or its purpose. None of them want to exist in a world like it is now. Their main problem though is that they all want very different kinds of Heaven and none can seem to see the positive and negative of all sides.

Heaven is Orwellian, bb!

That's what makes Mary's lines at the end of 5.13 so creepy. Because it's actually true.

I think it already exists tbh, it's called Lucifer Rising.

Well, my next stop will be spnstoryfinders then. I need to read this fic like yesterday.

[eido.livejournal.com]

And Anna is technically not the only angel who confirmed that Heaven is not just sitting on cloud counting daisies

Yup. Raphael and Gabriel also both seem on the verge of a nervous breakdown, especially Raphael. And these are archangels we're dealing with, the elite. Even they're at the breaking point. While the grunts and the peons (Cupids, for example) - Huxley might refer to them as the Deltas - seem utterly oblivious, just going on with their duties like nothing is wrong. Much like most of the humans on Earth who have no clue. Almost madly jovial Cupid didn't even seem touched by Armageddon at all.

Their main problem though is that they all want very different kinds of Heaven and none can seem to see the positive and negative of all sides.

Like when Raphael was crying about how bad the 20th Century was, I failed to see how very bad it was compared to earlier human civilizations. Yes, there are nuclear bombs and bio-warfare, but there's also antibiotics and revolutions in stuff like stem cell research. He forget about the Crusades? The Dark Ages? The Punic Wars? Human civilization is cyclical, it rises and falls constantly and that's as true then as it is now. All I can think is Raphael is either drinking the Kool-Aid up in Heaven or he's just tired of the whole shebang, blaming it on the most recent century and all to justify their current actions. It's Final Solution, simple as that and they're seriously trying to pass it off as something beneficial to those they're planning to exterminate. Something they've convinced themselves Daddy would approve of.

That's what makes Mary's lines at the end of 5.13 so creepy. Because it's actually true.

"Angels are watching over you." = Big Brother is watching you. Totally.

[22by7.livejournal.com]

Oh come on, the 20th century hit a new record for bad even for us! But yeah, the justification was extremely fishy. I got the feeling that angels like Raphael and Lucifer (and perhaps Michael?) like to think of the Earth as this tiny picturesque island and are now pissed off that the natives have RUINED the place, something like that.

[eido.livejournal.com]

Of course, the angels apparently thought they wouldn't get trumped before they could really go Lord of the Flies on said island first. Or at least bestest.

[22by7.livejournal.com]

THANK YOU, you should've labelled this a PSA.