spn - 5.14 - my bloody valentine

[retro_eidas]

Since they didn't use any songs in this ep thus no lyrics for me to quote in the cut and I'm not going to quote from Jensen's shitty movie, I'll quote Dante at random!

• My bloody valentine? Try whole bloody season. Lovers literally devouring each other ...in the kitchen against a fridge, no less. Ha ha. Averting my eyes now, Mr. Edlund!! *cringes* This probably wasn't on purpose, but that reminded me a hell of a lot of the last scene you see Clarice and Hannibal Lecter together at the end of the "Hannibal" movie. Him looking like he's about to bite her face off with her trapped against a fridge (for squick, they actually ended up together in the book).
  
  
• Famine reminded me of creeptastic Reverend Kane from the "Poltergeist" sequels. Those sequels were pretty crap, but that old dude was stuff of nightmares.
  
  
• When's Dean going to learn to stop punching angels? But wow, Sammy doesn't look like the only one with anger issues. Sammy's more the overt raging at anything and everything but Mr. Push-It-All-Down-And-Move-On Dean seems more like a powder keg waiting to blow. Push him hard enough, he will try to lay you out, even if it may break his hand and he knows it.
  
  
• Cas really does like materializing this || close to Dean, doesn't he?
  
  
• Apparently it's business as usual for third class cherubs. "Cupid" seemed utterly undeterred about the whole Apocalypse business his (higher ranked?) emo brothers have all been going nutso over. I take it a low-ranked angel like him either doesn't care or somehow doesn't know what his brothers are doing to Earth? He didn't seem without compassion, he started sobbing when he thought he was responsible for the deaths of two of his marks. Which makes me lean towards him - and his fellow heavenly peons - just not knowing. Zachariah bragged they'd been keeping the ground troops ignorant of their greater plan. I'd take it that's true for all the lower ranked angels as well (though how could they not know what's going on?) I'd wonder what these lower ranked angels would think if they learned the extent of their brothers' shenanigans? I can't imagine they'd be too happy about it.
  
  
• Not that it's particularly surprising from all the determinism Michael was jawing about last week, but Heaven played matchmaker for John/Mary? They'd have not gotten together if not for, literal, divine intervention? All apparently to cook up some vessels? That's disturbing. I've still got this fear Heaven compelled Dean and Sam to knock up some chicks as back-up or they might. They just keep going on and on about bloodlines and family this season.
  
  
• Jimmy is still in there then? Though after Cas leaves him, too bad he'll be dead from high cholesterol in 10 years. Dude, Jimmy, salads can be awesome too. I feel sorry for Misha having to stuff his face for so many takes, I'm sure Jensen could sympathize (or it was his idea).
  
  
• Interesting (or unnerving) Jimmy's being affected by Famine - that human susceptibility to hunger - was more powerful than Castiel could fight.
  
  
• But WTF writers? Jimmy is still alive in there, so wtf was up with letting Cas nearly bang a hooker? And after all the pains they took to make sure GC!Ruby's vessel was vacated / prevent Sam from raping some possessed chick. I doubt straight arrow, family man Jimmy was up to having an affair unless it's God/angels calling
  
  
• Dean's so broken he doesn't "hunger" for anything? Though that whole "hole inside of [Dean]" line - apart from the mantears at the end of H&H - reminds me of what Dean said to Tessa the Reaper back in DTAH. Dean going to wax poetic at Death (again)?
  
  
• I'd speculate if Dean's being unaffected by Famine c/o 40 years of Hell a possible reason why the "righteous man" was allowed to stew down there so long. A failsafe so the Horsemen wouldn't affect him? However, wasn't he affected by War? IIRC, he was seeing the demon eyes just like the rest of them in 5.02. Then again, I suppose not being affected by Famine doesn't necessarily translate to the rest of the Horsemen, though that would be an interesting (and depressing) trait of Dean's. His time in Hell was to break him, but so he could be immune to Horsemen?
  
  
• How long did Dean wait before he stormed into the diner (possibly infested with demons and a Horseman of the Apocalypse) to save Cas? Less than a minute? Heh.
  
  
• Too bad all the eps couldn't have been as easily dispersed amongst Team Free Will as this one was. This is probably one of the few eps this season Show has really utilized the fact it has *three* leads, all of whom have chemistry with each other.
  
  
• It looks as though they might be trying to salvage Sam's powers off the evil heap. Though he's still got to drain the possessed. It's probably an understandable fear, but is Lucifer going to be dangling vials of his/Nick's blood in front of Sam to tempt him?
  
  
• Dean still needs a hug (though preferably not from naked fat angels, they just creep him out). Cas looked like he was ready to follow Dean out and I really wish he did. He was looking concerned and looking right at Dean chugging on that booze, you could also tell he was trying to make the effort to comfort Dean about Sam's condition. It's a shame he didn't/couldn't answer Dean's prayer this time too like he'd done in MATEOTB.
  
  
• My guess is Dean's going to have to choose to live or something, but possibly also be given a very real motivation and probably (or it may have to be) something outside of Sam.

Comments

[amaresu]

Maybe Jimmy is dead? It's possible that Cas was just referring to the body and not the man. IDK, I wish they'd give us a firm yes or no on the matter. I'm gonna go with Cas just talking about the body because it makes me feel better that way.

I really hope the Cupids show up again, but I'm not going to hold my breath. This is Supernatural after all.

but Heaven played matchmaker for John/Mary?

I actually rather liked this and it explains why John was so messed up after she died. If he had a little sigil on his heart forcing him to love Mary it really explains a lot about the insane obsessive love. It's also a wonderful nail in the coffin of the destiny line they've been swinging. It's not that there isn't free will, it's just that Heaven has really been planning this for a long time and put their most detail orientated people on the job.

Dean's so broken he doesn't "hunger" for anything?

Through most of the episode I was wondering if Dean wasn't effected because he's just so used to not getting what he wants/hungers for that he's used to ignoring the desire. Combine that with his massive depression issues and I can buy it. What I find most interesting is that he stopped wanting the things he normally does, sex and food, like a backlash against Famine's power or something.

Too bad all the eps couldn't have been as easily dispersed amongst Team Free Will as this one was.

That was so very nice. All three of them doing things and being productive and a writer that actually knew what to do with Cas. Did Edlund write anymore for the season?


At the end there I was actually a bit concerned that Dean was going call Michael down and say yes. Just to get it over with. The way the season's been going I'm almost thinking they're going to go with Sam completely resisting Lucifer and Dean giving into Michael.

[eido.livejournal.com]

Maybe Jimmy is dead? It's possible that Cas was just referring to the body and not the man.

Like I mentioned to tiptoe39 above though, with the way Famine was going on about the hunger being soul-deep as well as physical? I guess I'm leaning more towards Jimmy still being there.

Oddly, I did sort of take that as a bit of hope - maybe foreshadowing - for Dean if he does say yes. Though amplified by Famine, it does seem possible a human soul/body can fight against and completely overwhelm an angel's actions and will (tho Jimmy presumably never gained actual consciousness). Much like Bobby and John were able to fight demonic possession, though momentarily. Then again, Jimmy's hunger overwhelming a debilitated rebel angel (and with a Horseman's help) and Dean having to take control over the archangel general of the Host are probably two different things entirely. I'm going to cling to the hope possibility though, because FOR FRAK'S SAKE, we've got to have a little somewhere in this mess.

It's not that there isn't free will, it's just that Heaven has really been planning this for a long time and put their most detail orientated people on the job.

And thus Michael's belief that free will is an illusion because they've been commandeering over so much of human existence, namely Dean's & Sam's lives, that they simply never witnessed free will in action. Like Dean, they probably need to see something right in their faces before they'd believe.

Though technically speaking Michael may not necessarily be wrong about free will being an illusion. If SPN's God is as omniscient and omnipresent as the typical Judeo-Christian God, then all existence would be pre-determined but only by God. I doubt Michael has that same level of awareness, even if greater than most angels. He might believe he was specially privied to know what the will of God is, being Daddy's most loyal blunt instrument, but like most of his brethren who keep getting egg on their faces after presumptions turn out to be wrong? That angelic arrogance has likely blinded Michael to God's true will as much as it has the rest of his brethren.

That is depressing though too. The idea that Sam & Jessica might have got the love sigil whammie but knowing, when Azazel killed her (as they likely knew he would), it would be the one surefire motivation to compel Sam back into the hunting life. Sam being so much like his father and they already saw the result of John having lost Mary.

Through most of the episode I was wondering if Dean wasn't effected because he's just so used to not getting what he wants/hungers for that he's used to ignoring the desire.

I did wonder if there's maybe some Buddhist or Gnostic concept at play here. That Dean has somehow transcended the desires of the physical world (he'd also been willing to give up the Impala to Sam in 5.02 as well as, though reluctantly, his pendant to Cas). Of course, they're also ensconcing it in something negative (Dean being "broken"), as if he hasn't transcended but that there's something fundamentally wrong about him that manages to essentially cheat his way out of Famine's power... which isn't so Buddhist or Gnostic. Well, Gnostic maybe, as Gnostics detested the physical body and found it inherently flawed. Something to be suffered through and overcome. Now Dean has to overcome this "brokenness", this apparently fundamental flaw about himself? IDK IDK, I'm starting to get a headache thinking about it.

[amaresu]

And thus Michael's belief that free will is an illusion because they've been commandeering over so much of human existence,

Which is why they've completely failed to approach Dean in a way that might actually work. I think it's part just not understanding how he could possibly say no and part "Do you have any idea how much effort has gone into this? You don't get to mess it all up now." and that's really pretty much screwed them over where Dean is concerned. They've bought into their own propaganda at this point.

That Dean has somehow transcended the desires of the physical world

I don't know if he's transcended the desires of the physical world so much as realized that they aren't going to help him. I think the fact that he still takes part in the desires (drinking being the one constant we saw for him this episode) means he hasn't transcended them, but I think he's very aware of how little they help him. He seems to realize just how little they do in the long run.

Lately I've really been comparing Dean to S6 Buffy in my head. Both completely broken people trying to scrap through for the job and for their siblings, but who desperately want to just lay down and let it all end. And for Buffy it was refinding her purpose in life that really helped her heal, even if it was with massive scar tissue, so I'm hoping something similar happens with Dean. Finally finding something that can fill that hole inside of him, but it's probably going to be something so completely different from what he currently has.

[eido.livejournal.com]

Combine that with his massive depression issues and I can buy it. What I find most interesting is that he stopped wanting the things he normally does, sex and food, like a backlash against Famine's power or something.

Like maybe his hunger was simply not wanting this ephemeral stuff to try to fulfill him, when he knows it won't? That could be what they're suggesting since Dean's praying at the end (desperate for a spiritual balm, since the physical isn't cutting it anymore)? Maybe being "broken" as Famine said wasn't necessarily so much "broken", but Dean being different? Famine just read it as a flaw because he didn't understand it? Straw-grasping as that is, since Dean really isn't alright. It's unfortunately far too easy to believe he really may be fundamentally "broken" somehow, all the way down to his soul.

Did Edlund write anymore for the season?

Apart from this one, "The End" and "Abandon All Hope", I hear he's writing ep20 too.

At the end there I was actually a bit concerned that Dean was going call Michael down and say yes.

I thought it too and I've been seeing that a lot in ep reactions. The guy is so desperate for help and he feels like he's so out of options, he's looking heavenward (something Cas always used to do in S4).

There also seemed to be a distinct juxtaposition between Dean not eating and Cas the one stuffing his face. Not unlike "The End" we see Cas the one reveling in human vices (for comfort) while Dean is the unfeeling, cold-blooded bastard all about the mission. The role reversal theme - especially between Dean and Cas - still seems disturbingly on track this timeline as it seemed to be in the last one.

Just to get it over with. The way the season's been going I'm almost thinking they're going to go with Sam completely resisting Lucifer and Dean giving into Michael.

I'm starting to think that myself, especially after "Sam, Interrupted". Not that it's new, but Dean's whole Bury It And Move On way of dealing with problems and his (belief of the) lack of reprieve from their miserable lives? Probably going to come back and bite him, and maybe the world at large, in the ass before the end. All the while they're distracting us how angry and demon-blood addicted Sam is, yet he's always been the more well-adjusted and - comparably to Dean anyway - the healthier of the two brothers. Dean honestly seems like he's at the very end of his rope now.

[amaresu]

Like maybe his hunger was simply not wanting this ephemeral stuff to try to fulfill him, when he knows it won't?

Or because of Famine he couldn't use his normal tricks to make himself feel better? He had that deeper pit of hunger gnawing at him with no way to fill it, no way to even know how to fill it.

Maybe being "broken" as Famine said wasn't necessarily so much "broken", but Dean being different? Famine just read it as a flaw because he didn't understand it?

Something tells me that Famine didn't often run across people hungry for something other then earthly things. And I think this episode was very good at showing that Dean doesn't really want the earthly things, he wants peace and a chance to just rest without all the responsibility on him and I think he's probably on the cusp of a spiritual revelation.

Side note: They've really been trying to show Castiel as one of the family this season (to lesser or greater success), but one of the hallmarks of the Winchesters is that they take care of each other's problems. Dean killed Azazel. Sam killed Alistair. Dean killed Ruby. Castiel resurrected Dean (for Sam). So I'm wondering if Dean won't be the one to find God in the end.

The guy is so desperate for help and he feels like he's so out of options, he's looking heavenward

If Michael was smart now would be the time to start some serious courting.

The role reversal theme - especially between Dean and Cas - still seems disturbingly on track this timeline as it seemed to be in the last one.

I wonder how aware of this Dean is? Is that future timeline something he thinks about or is something he's pushed down and avoids looking at? Because if he is aware of that then it would just be another thing pushing him towards Michael.

. All the while they're distracting us how angry and demon-blood addicted Sam is,

And Supernatural has a long history of attempting the bait-and-switch while leaving bread crumbs for the actual ending.

[eido.livejournal.com]

I don't know if he's transcended the desires of the physical world so much as realized that they aren't going to help him.

....

I think this episode was very good at showing that Dean doesn't really want the earthly things, he wants peace and a chance to just rest without all the responsibility on him and I think he's probably on the cusp of a spiritual revelation.

On that note, and this might sound bad, but I get an impression with everyone whose died this season and Armageddon itself, we are heading for a(nother) destruction and rebirth of Dean. Those who've died - as well as his dependency on booze and sex for comfort - representing his old self which he's aware can no longer continue as is, and then, post-Apocalypse, we'll see a new Dean or the makings of a new Dean. This change reflected in the end of the world. Which is fairly consistent with a lot of protags in apocalyptic stories. Change coming at both microcosmic and macrocosmic levels.

it's probably going to be something so completely different from what he currently has.

That's the only way it can be, I'd think. Since what he has now, at least in the way he has it, just isn't really helping him heal.

I wonder how aware of this Dean is? Is that future timeline something he thinks about or is something he's pushed down and avoids looking at? Because if he is aware of that then it would just be another thing pushing him towards Michael.

Dean doesn't really get things until they're practically clue anvils raining down from the sky. My guess he's going to get apprehensive/concerned about Castiel in a stark moment of Cas displaying weakness or injury. More if there's some substance abuse issue that happens and, with Castiel straying towards the food vice of Jimmy's (and Dean's), the booze (and possibly the sex) may not be far behind. Especially since the season probably isn't going to let up on him or any of them anytime soon. Though, with Jimmy apparently still present, I'm not sure Castiel will ever resort to the sex. At least not until Jimmy vacates the premises.

And Supernatural has a long history of attempting the bait-and-switch while leaving bread crumbs for the actual ending.

In another reversal of S4, we have Sam - who can clearly see something is off about his brother - trying to find out what's wrong with Dean in the beginning of the ep. Last season it was Dean constantly asking Sam what his deal was (until Dean found out the worst way possible, first seeing Sam use his powers with his own eyes and then watching him gorge on demon blood). If that pattern holds true, Sam's probably not going to find out what's wrong with Dean either until it's too late and/or the worst way possible. Maybe after or while Dean is on the very edge of going off the deep end.

Of course, the end of this ep sort of reset back to S4 temporarily with Sam in demon blood detox again, but it's clear there is definitely something wrong with Dean. Though they both care a great deal about Dean, Sam being so messed up himself and Castiel still not having the greatest understanding of humanity, one might wonder who's going to end up being there for Dean. Michael? God? He's extremely vulnerable right now and, you're right, if Michael is at all smart, he should be sending the mariachis outside of Dean's window immediately and with extreme prejudice. Are Sam and Castiel going to be able to talk him away from the Michael temptation? I really hope so, but I just don't know anymore. Sam and Cas are going to have to really up their gameplan when it comes to the way they deal with Dean. More than they've ever done before. Possibly even leading or contributing to their own development and transformations.

[amaresu]

we are heading for a(nother) destruction and rebirth of Dean

Most assuradly. Dean can't continue as he is, but it's going to take something big for him to change. Maybe something as big as saying yes to Michael or finding god. I think by the end of the season though he's going to be a vastly different person.

My guess he's going to get apprehensive/concerned about Castiel in a stark moment of Cas displaying weakness or injury.

I'm rather looking forward to what they do with Castiel for the rest of the season. Especially if they actually push forward on his plot line.

In another reversal of S4, we have Sam - who can clearly see something is off about his brother - trying to find out what's wrong with Dean in the beginning of the ep.

I like that he tried multiple times in the episode to get Dean to talk. And there was a little look he shared with Cas after Dean punched the Cupid. It seems to suggest that they're both aware of the issues, but don't quite know what to do with them.

Are Sam and Castiel going to be able to talk him away from the Michael temptation?

They're going to have to, but right now Dean is approaching the point where he thinks that oblivion is better then living. Which is where he's probably going to say yes. If Sam and Castiel aren't on top of it then he could very easily just give in.

I think it'll be interesting to see how Sam reacts because it'll probably be one of his big moments for growth. He spent most of S4 wanting to 'take care of Dean' the way Dean has always taken care of him and now he actually has a chance to. The question is whether or not he'll step up to the plate because he has a long history of being really selfish about these sorts of things.

Castiel is perhaps going to have to learn that he needs to find his own reasons for living and doing things? It really does seem like he's just following Dean's orders a lot of the time and if Dean does fall off the deep end it'll force Cas to stand up and make his own decisions.

[eido.livejournal.com]

I'm rather looking forward to what they do with Castiel for the rest of the season. Especially if they actually push forward on his plot line.

I'm just hoping - simply for not being Dean or Sam - he doesn't end up some martyr for the cause.

And there was a little look [Sam] shared with Cas after Dean punched the Cupid. It seems to suggest that they're both aware of the issues, but don't quite know what to do with them.

But hopefully retain some solidarity and partnership in trying to help and reach Dean. It probably will take both of them cooperating to have a chance in helping him.

They're going to have to, but right now Dean is approaching the point where he thinks that oblivion is better then living. Which is where he's probably going to say yes. If Sam and Castiel aren't on top of it then he could very easily just give in.

There are 8 eps to go yet, so there is a little time. However, a lot of bad things could happen yet too. I still think Bobby is a goner and if Dean loses Bobby...?

I think it'll be interesting to see how Sam reacts because it'll probably be one of his big moments for growth. He spent most of S4 wanting to 'take care of Dean' the way Dean has always taken care of him and now he actually has a chance to.

Though I'm very apprehensive on whether he should be put in this situation again and again. Though I didn't agree with Sam's nastier epithets at Dean in S4, Dean really was also not in top form last season either. So, in a way, Sam did have a point about Dean not being ready, at least last season, for what is apparently in Dean's path.... but it's still Dean's path. Sam getting in that path last season, basically trying to usurp it from Dean, ultimately led to disaster. The problem is, Sam's powers did save them more than once and apparently they're just always there under the surface, just one demon blood pick-me-up and he can use them again.

I'm just worried, the fact that Sam's powers - and probably symbolically Lucifer's (and Michael's, Sam is in that bloodline) power too - can be useful sometimes, just makes them that much more tempting. For Sam to stop feeling he has to step up to the plate (or being tempted to), Dean's got to step up into that path himself... and he's still reluctant. Though in fairness, he doesn't know what to do either. How is he supposed to even begin to stop the devil and Armageddon?

It really does seem like he's just following Dean's orders a lot of the time and if Dean does fall off the deep end it'll force Cas to stand up and make his own decisions....

Dean can't continue as he is, but it's going to take something big for him to change. Maybe something as big as saying yes to Michael or finding god. I think by the end of the season though he's going to be a vastly different person.

Either that, or he'll just go off the Future!Castiel deep end and resort to substance abuse when he feels he's lost Dean or can't follow him anymore. It's melodramatic, but I do think Dean is pretty much Castiel's raison d'etre post-4x22. Which is kind of something I hope Dean sees and brings him back from whatever kind of despair or self-inflicted exile (that's if he hasn't said yes to Michael yet). Between that and the possibility of Sam using his powers again (a very fresh fear as of 5x14), maybe these will be the motivations that will finally have Dean embracing whatever strength he needs to complete his Hero's Journey? Even at the potential loss of self (destruction of the ego)?