retro_eidas (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
retro_eidas) wrote2010-02-11 10:37 pm
retro_eidas) wrote2010-02-11 10:37 pm
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spn - 5.14 - my bloody valentine
Since they didn't use any songs in this ep thus no lyrics for me to quote in the cut and I'm not going to quote from Jensen's shitty movie, I'll quote Dante at random!
- My bloody valentine? Try whole bloody season. Lovers literally devouring each other ...in the kitchen against a fridge, no less. Ha ha. Averting my eyes now, Mr. Edlund!! *cringes* This probably wasn't on purpose, but that reminded me a hell of a lot of the last scene you see Clarice and Hannibal Lecter together at the end of the "Hannibal" movie. Him looking like he's about to bite her face off with her trapped against a fridge (for squick, they actually ended up together in the book).
- Famine reminded me of creeptastic Reverend Kane from the "Poltergeist" sequels. Those sequels were pretty crap, but that old dude was stuff of nightmares.
- When's Dean going to learn to stop punching angels? But wow, Sammy doesn't look like the only one with anger issues. Sammy's more the overt raging at anything and everything but Mr. Push-It-All-Down-And-Move-On Dean seems more like a powder keg waiting to blow. Push him hard enough, he will try to lay you out, even if it may break his hand and he knows it.
- Cas really does like materializing this || close to Dean, doesn't he?
- Apparently it's business as usual for third class cherubs. "Cupid" seemed utterly undeterred about the whole Apocalypse business his (higher ranked?) emo brothers have all been going nutso over. I take it a low-ranked angel like him either doesn't care or somehow doesn't know what his brothers are doing to Earth? He didn't seem without compassion, he started sobbing when he thought he was responsible for the deaths of two of his marks. Which makes me lean towards him - and his fellow heavenly peons - just not knowing. Zachariah bragged they'd been keeping the ground troops ignorant of their greater plan. I'd take it that's true for all the lower ranked angels as well (though how could they not know what's going on?) I'd wonder what these lower ranked angels would think if they learned the extent of their brothers' shenanigans? I can't imagine they'd be too happy about it.
- Not that it's particularly surprising from all the determinism Michael was jawing about last week, but Heaven played matchmaker for John/Mary? They'd have not gotten together if not for, literal, divine intervention? All apparently to cook up some vessels? That's disturbing. I've still got this fear Heaven compelled Dean and Sam to knock up some chicks as back-up or they might. They just keep going on and on about bloodlines and family this season.
- Jimmy is still in there then? Though after Cas leaves him, too bad he'll be dead from high cholesterol in 10 years. Dude, Jimmy, salads can be awesome too. I feel sorry for Misha having to stuff his face for so many takes, I'm sure Jensen could sympathize (or it was his idea).
- Interesting (or unnerving) Jimmy's being affected by Famine - that human susceptibility to hunger - was more powerful than Castiel could fight.
- But WTF writers? Jimmy is still alive in there, so wtf was up with letting Cas nearly bang a hooker? And after all the pains they took to make sure GC!Ruby's vessel was vacated / prevent Sam from raping some possessed chick. I doubt straight arrow, family man Jimmy was up to having an affair
unless it's God/angels calling - Dean's so broken he doesn't "hunger" for anything? Though that whole "hole inside of [Dean]" line - apart from the mantears at the end of H&H - reminds me of what Dean said to Tessa the Reaper back in DTAH. Dean going to wax poetic at Death (again)?
- I'd speculate if Dean's being unaffected by Famine c/o 40 years of Hell a possible reason why the "righteous man" was allowed to stew down there so long. A failsafe so the Horsemen wouldn't affect him? However, wasn't he affected by War? IIRC, he was seeing the demon eyes just like the rest of them in 5.02. Then again, I suppose not being affected by Famine doesn't necessarily translate to the rest of the Horsemen, though that would be an interesting (and depressing) trait of Dean's. His time in Hell was to break him, but so he could be immune to Horsemen?
- How long did Dean wait before he stormed into the diner (possibly infested with demons and a Horseman of the Apocalypse) to save Cas? Less than a minute? Heh.
- Too bad all the eps couldn't have been as easily dispersed amongst Team Free Will as this one was. This is probably one of the few eps this season Show has really utilized the fact it has *three* leads, all of whom have chemistry with each other.
- It looks as though they might be trying to salvage Sam's powers off the evil heap. Though he's still got to drain the possessed. It's probably an understandable fear, but is Lucifer going to be dangling vials of his/Nick's blood in front of Sam to tempt him?
- Dean still needs a hug (though preferably not from naked fat angels, they just creep him out). Cas looked like he was ready to follow Dean out and I really wish he did. He was looking concerned and looking right at Dean chugging on that booze, you could also tell he was trying to make the effort to comfort Dean about Sam's condition. It's a shame he didn't/couldn't answer Dean's prayer this time too like he'd done in MATEOTB.
- My guess is Dean's going to have to choose to live or something, but possibly also be given a very real motivation and probably (or it may have to be) something outside of Sam.
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Honestly Dean's PTSD and Depression can blamed for his 'non-desire' I don't think he's broken completely. I really really hope not.
Impatient Dean running in after Cas was sweet but finding him on the floor eating raw meat and yet another Cas like a dog reference, it makes me >:[
The Jimmy thing really displeased me. ON the one hand Jimmy being alive is good because he didn't deserve to die on the other wtf!? Look at all the crap Castiel is dragging him through! DNW.
Oh Sam. He just needs a hug sfm! I hate that they did that to him, he didn't want it. I'm so proud of him refusing his demon buffet! :hug for Sam:
Dean still needs a hug (though preferably not from naked fat angels, they just creep him out). Cas looked like he was ready to follow Dean out and I really wish he did. He was looking concerned and looking right at Dean chugging on that booze, you could also tell he was trying to make the effort to comfort Dean about Sam's condition. It's a shame he didn't/couldn't answer Dean's prayer this time too like he'd done in MATEOTB.
THIS SFM! Oh Cas <\3
Dean's always had such a messed up life and they kept at it until no normal person could actually handle that crap. Its like the only way he'll be ok is if he's dead but as we've seen he can't even rest them. He's just so tired and always having to just 'deal', always having to deal :\
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I saw it as manipulation. However, part of me is struggling wondering if it matters how they got together, at least they got together. Another part is all too disturbed how much Heaven has nosed in in so many aspects of their lives.
ETA. But I also hated the whole Cupid matchmaker because it makes John/Mary seem very impersonal. Like some cattle paired up to make some choice prime rib (called Dean & Sam). This reminds me of, for example, the Middle Ages and arranged marriage. How marriage wasn't about love, but what the Church (literal Heaven, in this case) mandated. Real romantic love, or Amor, the personal connection not dictated by the Church or families, was seen as a sin. Joseph Campbell says a thing or two about the difference between Eros (o hai Cupid) vs. Amor and falls strongly on the side of Amor. Amor was romantic love that transcends the physical and can be spiritual/religious, but doesn't exclude the physical by default either (as Church credo dictates). Eros, on the other hand, was more about lust, the biological urge (which could be seen in that gorey love scene at the beginning of this ep. Lust disturbingly conflated with hunger/feeding). Biological urge that apparently existed between John/Mary as the reason for their "love" was to continue this super-special bloodline. WTF Heaven? Where is the Amor?
Also just a guess, but I wouldn't be shocked Kripke uses Amor specifically in the process of healing Dean. Something he currently doesn't have.
Honestly Dean's PTSD and Depression can blamed for his 'non-desire' I don't think he's broken completely. I really really hope not....
Its like the only way he'll be ok is if he's dead but as we've seen he can't even rest them. He's just so tired and always having to just 'deal', always having to deal :\
I want to keep some hope alive that the emptiness inside of Dean is just waiting to be filled by the right thing. Which just wasn't accessible in this ep. I don't know if they'll go all evangelical on us and say it's (love of/belief in) God that Dean's missing. He was praying at the end there and presumably to God (though like other folks, it also seemed dangerously like he was about to say yes to Michael). IDK IDK Like you, I get the impression they're suggesting death is Dean's only release, except I really wouldn't want Dean to die unless he can be promised some sort of peace - or at least something not completely miserable - in the afterlife. Cuz Heaven as it currently is doesn't seem all that great.
Impatient Dean running in after Cas was sweet but finding him on the floor eating raw meat and yet another Cas like a dog reference, it makes me >:[
I get some comfort reading Lorca (http://www.boppin.com/lorca/sonnet.html). Otherwise, I got the pet/dog motife too. o.O Slightly twisted, but considering Cas spent most of his existence being the Good Little Soldier, you might wonder if Cas wasn't as unaffected by Famine as he seemed to claim. Except he's gone from being on his knees to Heaven, to being on his knees for humans (specifically, Dean) and he wants to be there. Wants Dean to lead him, except Dean can sometimes be debilitated by being "broken" and doesn't always come off a proper leader. There are moments though we can see it coming through (5.02, for example).
Look at all the crap Castiel is dragging him through! DNW.
I suppose it's either this or being pro-Armageddon. Castiel (and thus Jimmy) know too much to try to wallow in blissful ignorance. Despite the suffering, I imagine Jimmy would be on the side that might spare his family as he, though a little too late, did ultimately put them first. However, I posted to
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It bothers me that for all the planning and supposed eventuality of Dean and Sam as Michael and Lucifer Castiel doesn't seem to be accounted for and then I wonder what the implications of this time frame are, exactly how long has God been MIA?
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Cupid didn't seem like a bad guy either, which is the scary part. Even the not-so-bad ones are messed up and don't get how messed up they are, because their society, thus the orders, are messed up. Most of the peons, like presumably "cherub, third class", just don't see it.
Angels and their whole world just seem so damn dystopic. Seriously, selective breeding? Topped off with Michael's determinism BS, Anna's describing most angels as emotionless marble statues who can't choose for themselves and the general detesting of (and domineering over) lower lifeforms? It's all creepily Orwellian. Castiel is pretty much like the Guy Montag or Rick Deckard. The lone rebel within the system that can see it's corruptness when the rest of his brethren can't or don't care, then taking on the seemingly impossible task of trying to fight the monolithic system/Big Brother.
What bothers me is in just about every dystopia story? The Father Figure is either utterly ineffective/powerless or he's the very source of the wrongness of the society. Hence why I've been really apprehensive about Castiel putting all his faith and hope in the God plan... and then God turns out to be some Mustapha Monde type or like God in His Dark Materials.
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And I really love your icon~
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And thus probably why God will turn out to be an asshole or ineffectual. It's all gotta come down to the guys by each others' sides in the trenches, not Daddy or anyone else. Like in a lot of coming-of-age stories (which in many ways, SPN still is, despite most of the protags being adults), they shouldn't - or can't - be depending on Dad to fix their problems. IIRC, John - despite the whole of S1 being about the search for him - really didn't do much when he finally showed up. The finale he got captured and then turned out to be possessed (of which pitted Dean vs. John and Sam had to choose between them, he chose his bro. The guy who'd been with him in the trenches his whole life).
Also problematic is if God is an asshole or ineffectual, will Castiel side with him anyway, simply because he's Daddy? Cas had a lapse in judgment towards the end of last season too. I'd really, really hope Cas keeps choosing his (surrogate)bros in the trenches over anyone and everything, but Cas could still be a wild card with this.
ETA. Michael is creepily Mustapha Monde-like, but damn is MattCohen!Mike pretty. I might just consider soma holiday Paradise if he was offering.
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But GAH!!! CAS CAN'T DIE!!! [/WAILS] I'm keeping a tiny hope alive they'll still be sitting on the identity of Cas' resurrector (and whoever saved Dean & Sam from Lucifer in 5x01) if Cas becomes a martyr. That's when mysterious resurrector reveals him/herself, by saving Cas again.
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My headcanon on Jimmy is that his vessel, the physical body, has cravings, and Jimmy himself is long gone. Makes things easier. I'm happy they mentioned him, though!
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The way Famine was going on about the hunger not just being about the body, but the soul too? I suppose I'm leaning more towards Jimmy actually still in there. That and my belief they likely dropped that bomb to squeeze some angst out of it later. Or, damn them, remind us again the body is not Castiel's and he will have to relinquish it eventually, if he/it don't get disintegrated again before the end. Though, if there's a season 6, I'm not entirely sure I'd still watch if there's no Misha!Castiel. I'm one of those that didn't start watching seriously until S4, so M!Cas is pretty much integral to my SPN happy place. If Cas has to relinquish the body, God or somebody better throw some favors his way a la Anna still looking like JM and make him a Jimmy!duplicate bod.
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I really hope the Cupids show up again, but I'm not going to hold my breath. This is Supernatural after all.
but Heaven played matchmaker for John/Mary?
I actually rather liked this and it explains why John was so messed up after she died. If he had a little sigil on his heart forcing him to love Mary it really explains a lot about the insane obsessive love. It's also a wonderful nail in the coffin of the destiny line they've been swinging. It's not that there isn't free will, it's just that Heaven has really been planning this for a long time and put their most detail orientated people on the job.
Dean's so broken he doesn't "hunger" for anything?
Through most of the episode I was wondering if Dean wasn't effected because he's just so used to not getting what he wants/hungers for that he's used to ignoring the desire. Combine that with his massive depression issues and I can buy it. What I find most interesting is that he stopped wanting the things he normally does, sex and food, like a backlash against Famine's power or something.
Too bad all the eps couldn't have been as easily dispersed amongst Team Free Will as this one was.
That was so very nice. All three of them doing things and being productive and a writer that actually knew what to do with Cas. Did Edlund write anymore for the season?
At the end there I was actually a bit concerned that Dean was going call Michael down and say yes. Just to get it over with. The way the season's been going I'm almost thinking they're going to go with Sam completely resisting Lucifer and Dean giving into Michael.
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Like I mentioned to
Oddly, I did sort of take that as a bit of hope - maybe foreshadowing - for Dean if he does say yes. Though amplified by Famine, it does seem possible a human soul/body can fight against and completely overwhelm an angel's actions and will (tho Jimmy presumably never gained actual consciousness). Much like Bobby and John were able to fight demonic possession, though momentarily. Then again, Jimmy's hunger overwhelming a debilitated rebel angel (and with a Horseman's help) and Dean having to take control over the archangel general of the Host are probably two different things entirely. I'm going to cling to the hope possibility though, because FOR FRAK'S SAKE, we've got to have a little somewhere in this mess.
It's not that there isn't free will, it's just that Heaven has really been planning this for a long time and put their most detail orientated people on the job.
And thus Michael's belief that free will is an illusion because they've been commandeering over so much of human existence, namely Dean's & Sam's lives, that they simply never witnessed free will in action. Like Dean, they probably need to see something right in their faces before they'd believe.
Though technically speaking Michael may not necessarily be wrong about free will being an illusion. If SPN's God is as omniscient and omnipresent as the typical Judeo-Christian God, then all existence would be pre-determined but only by God. I doubt Michael has that same level of awareness, even if greater than most angels. He might believe he was specially privied to know what the will of God is, being Daddy's most loyal blunt instrument, but like most of his brethren who keep getting egg on their faces after presumptions turn out to be wrong? That angelic arrogance has likely blinded Michael to God's true will as much as it has the rest of his brethren.
That is depressing though too. The idea that Sam & Jessica might have got the love sigil whammie but knowing, when Azazel killed her (as they likely knew he would), it would be the one surefire motivation to compel Sam back into the hunting life. Sam being so much like his father and they already saw the result of John having lost Mary.
Through most of the episode I was wondering if Dean wasn't effected because he's just so used to not getting what he wants/hungers for that he's used to ignoring the desire.
I did wonder if there's maybe some Buddhist or Gnostic concept at play here. That Dean has somehow transcended the desires of the physical world (he'd also been willing to give up the Impala to Sam in 5.02 as well as, though reluctantly, his pendant to Cas). Of course, they're also ensconcing it in something negative (Dean being "broken"), as if he hasn't transcended but that there's something fundamentally wrong about him that manages to essentially cheat his way out of Famine's power... which isn't so Buddhist or Gnostic. Well, Gnostic maybe, as Gnostics detested the physical body and found it inherently flawed. Something to be suffered through and overcome. Now Dean has to overcome this "brokenness", this apparently fundamental flaw about himself? IDK IDK, I'm starting to get a headache thinking about it.
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Which is why they've completely failed to approach Dean in a way that might actually work. I think it's part just not understanding how he could possibly say no and part "Do you have any idea how much effort has gone into this? You don't get to mess it all up now." and that's really pretty much screwed them over where Dean is concerned. They've bought into their own propaganda at this point.
That Dean has somehow transcended the desires of the physical world
I don't know if he's transcended the desires of the physical world so much as realized that they aren't going to help him. I think the fact that he still takes part in the desires (drinking being the one constant we saw for him this episode) means he hasn't transcended them, but I think he's very aware of how little they help him. He seems to realize just how little they do in the long run.
Lately I've really been comparing Dean to S6 Buffy in my head. Both completely broken people trying to scrap through for the job and for their siblings, but who desperately want to just lay down and let it all end. And for Buffy it was refinding her purpose in life that really helped her heal, even if it was with massive scar tissue, so I'm hoping something similar happens with Dean. Finally finding something that can fill that hole inside of him, but it's probably going to be something so completely different from what he currently has.
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Like maybe his hunger was simply not wanting this ephemeral stuff to try to fulfill him, when he knows it won't? That could be what they're suggesting since Dean's praying at the end (desperate for a spiritual balm, since the physical isn't cutting it anymore)? Maybe being "broken" as Famine said wasn't necessarily so much "broken", but Dean being different? Famine just read it as a flaw because he didn't understand it? Straw-grasping as that is, since Dean really isn't alright. It's unfortunately far too easy to believe he really may be fundamentally "broken" somehow, all the way down to his soul.
Did Edlund write anymore for the season?
Apart from this one, "The End" and "Abandon All Hope", I hear he's writing ep20 too.
At the end there I was actually a bit concerned that Dean was going call Michael down and say yes.
I thought it too and I've been seeing that a lot in ep reactions. The guy is so desperate for help and he feels like he's so out of options, he's looking heavenward (something Cas always used to do in S4).
There also seemed to be a distinct juxtaposition between Dean not eating and Cas the one stuffing his face. Not unlike "The End" we see Cas the one reveling in human vices (for comfort) while Dean is the unfeeling, cold-blooded bastard all about the mission. The role reversal theme - especially between Dean and Cas - still seems disturbingly on track this timeline as it seemed to be in the last one.
Just to get it over with. The way the season's been going I'm almost thinking they're going to go with Sam completely resisting Lucifer and Dean giving into Michael.
I'm starting to think that myself, especially after "Sam, Interrupted". Not that it's new, but Dean's whole Bury It And Move On way of dealing with problems and his (belief of the) lack of reprieve from their miserable lives? Probably going to come back and bite him, and maybe the world at large, in the ass before the end. All the while they're distracting us how angry and demon-blood addicted Sam is, yet he's always been the more well-adjusted and - comparably to Dean anyway - the healthier of the two brothers. Dean honestly seems like he's at the very end of his rope now.
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Or because of Famine he couldn't use his normal tricks to make himself feel better? He had that deeper pit of hunger gnawing at him with no way to fill it, no way to even know how to fill it.
Maybe being "broken" as Famine said wasn't necessarily so much "broken", but Dean being different? Famine just read it as a flaw because he didn't understand it?
Something tells me that Famine didn't often run across people hungry for something other then earthly things. And I think this episode was very good at showing that Dean doesn't really want the earthly things, he wants peace and a chance to just rest without all the responsibility on him and I think he's probably on the cusp of a spiritual revelation.
Side note: They've really been trying to show Castiel as one of the family this season (to lesser or greater success), but one of the hallmarks of the Winchesters is that they take care of each other's problems. Dean killed Azazel. Sam killed Alistair. Dean killed Ruby. Castiel resurrected Dean (for Sam). So I'm wondering if Dean won't be the one to find God in the end.
The guy is so desperate for help and he feels like he's so out of options, he's looking heavenward
If Michael was smart now would be the time to start some serious courting.
The role reversal theme - especially between Dean and Cas - still seems disturbingly on track this timeline as it seemed to be in the last one.
I wonder how aware of this Dean is? Is that future timeline something he thinks about or is something he's pushed down and avoids looking at? Because if he is aware of that then it would just be another thing pushing him towards Michael.
. All the while they're distracting us how angry and demon-blood addicted Sam is,
And Supernatural has a long history of attempting the bait-and-switch while leaving bread crumbs for the actual ending.
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....
I think this episode was very good at showing that Dean doesn't really want the earthly things, he wants peace and a chance to just rest without all the responsibility on him and I think he's probably on the cusp of a spiritual revelation.
On that note, and this might sound bad, but I get an impression with everyone whose died this season and Armageddon itself, we are heading for a(nother) destruction and rebirth of Dean. Those who've died - as well as his dependency on booze and sex for comfort - representing his old self which he's aware can no longer continue as is, and then, post-Apocalypse, we'll see a new Dean or the makings of a new Dean. This change reflected in the end of the world. Which is fairly consistent with a lot of protags in apocalyptic stories. Change coming at both microcosmic and macrocosmic levels.
it's probably going to be something so completely different from what he currently has.
That's the only way it can be, I'd think. Since what he has now, at least in the way he has it, just isn't really helping him heal.
I wonder how aware of this Dean is? Is that future timeline something he thinks about or is something he's pushed down and avoids looking at? Because if he is aware of that then it would just be another thing pushing him towards Michael.
Dean doesn't really get things until they're practically clue anvils raining down from the sky. My guess he's going to get apprehensive/concerned about Castiel in a stark moment of Cas displaying weakness or injury. More if there's some substance abuse issue that happens and, with Castiel straying towards the food vice of Jimmy's (and Dean's), the booze (and possibly the sex) may not be far behind. Especially since the season probably isn't going to let up on him or any of them anytime soon. Though, with Jimmy apparently still present, I'm not sure Castiel will ever resort to the sex. At least not until Jimmy vacates the premises.
And Supernatural has a long history of attempting the bait-and-switch while leaving bread crumbs for the actual ending.
In another reversal of S4, we have Sam - who can clearly see something is off about his brother - trying to find out what's wrong with Dean in the beginning of the ep. Last season it was Dean constantly asking Sam what his deal was (until Dean found out the worst way possible, first seeing Sam use his powers with his own eyes and then watching him gorge on demon blood). If that pattern holds true, Sam's probably not going to find out what's wrong with Dean either until it's too late and/or the worst way possible. Maybe after or while Dean is on the very edge of going off the deep end.
Of course, the end of this ep sort of reset back to S4 temporarily with Sam in demon blood detox again, but it's clear there is definitely something wrong with Dean. Though they both care a great deal about Dean, Sam being so messed up himself and Castiel still not having the greatest understanding of humanity, one might wonder who's going to end up being there for Dean. Michael? God? He's extremely vulnerable right now and, you're right, if Michael is at all smart, he should be sending the mariachis outside of Dean's window immediately and with extreme prejudice. Are Sam and Castiel going to be able to talk him away from the Michael temptation? I really hope so, but I just don't know anymore. Sam and Cas are going to have to really up their gameplan when it comes to the way they deal with Dean. More than they've ever done before. Possibly even leading or contributing to their own development and transformations.
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Most assuradly. Dean can't continue as he is, but it's going to take something big for him to change. Maybe something as big as saying yes to Michael or finding god. I think by the end of the season though he's going to be a vastly different person.
My guess he's going to get apprehensive/concerned about Castiel in a stark moment of Cas displaying weakness or injury.
I'm rather looking forward to what they do with Castiel for the rest of the season. Especially if they actually push forward on his plot line.
In another reversal of S4, we have Sam - who can clearly see something is off about his brother - trying to find out what's wrong with Dean in the beginning of the ep.
I like that he tried multiple times in the episode to get Dean to talk. And there was a little look he shared with Cas after Dean punched the Cupid. It seems to suggest that they're both aware of the issues, but don't quite know what to do with them.
Are Sam and Castiel going to be able to talk him away from the Michael temptation?
They're going to have to, but right now Dean is approaching the point where he thinks that oblivion is better then living. Which is where he's probably going to say yes. If Sam and Castiel aren't on top of it then he could very easily just give in.
I think it'll be interesting to see how Sam reacts because it'll probably be one of his big moments for growth. He spent most of S4 wanting to 'take care of Dean' the way Dean has always taken care of him and now he actually has a chance to. The question is whether or not he'll step up to the plate because he has a long history of being really selfish about these sorts of things.
Castiel is perhaps going to have to learn that he needs to find his own reasons for living and doing things? It really does seem like he's just following Dean's orders a lot of the time and if Dean does fall off the deep end it'll force Cas to stand up and make his own decisions.
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I'm just hoping - simply for not being Dean or Sam - he doesn't end up some martyr for the cause.
And there was a little look [Sam] shared with Cas after Dean punched the Cupid. It seems to suggest that they're both aware of the issues, but don't quite know what to do with them.
But hopefully retain some solidarity and partnership in trying to help and reach Dean. It probably will take both of them cooperating to have a chance in helping him.
They're going to have to, but right now Dean is approaching the point where he thinks that oblivion is better then living. Which is where he's probably going to say yes. If Sam and Castiel aren't on top of it then he could very easily just give in.
There are 8 eps to go yet, so there is a little time. However, a lot of bad things could happen yet too. I still think Bobby is a goner and if Dean loses Bobby...?
I think it'll be interesting to see how Sam reacts because it'll probably be one of his big moments for growth. He spent most of S4 wanting to 'take care of Dean' the way Dean has always taken care of him and now he actually has a chance to.
Though I'm very apprehensive on whether he should be put in this situation again and again. Though I didn't agree with Sam's nastier epithets at Dean in S4, Dean really was also not in top form last season either. So, in a way, Sam did have a point about Dean not being ready, at least last season, for what is apparently in Dean's path.... but it's still Dean's path. Sam getting in that path last season, basically trying to usurp it from Dean, ultimately led to disaster. The problem is, Sam's powers did save them more than once and apparently they're just always there under the surface, just one demon blood pick-me-up and he can use them again.
I'm just worried, the fact that Sam's powers - and probably symbolically Lucifer's (and Michael's, Sam is in that bloodline) power too - can be useful sometimes, just makes them that much more tempting. For Sam to stop feeling he has to step up to the plate (or being tempted to), Dean's got to step up into that path himself... and he's still reluctant. Though in fairness, he doesn't know what to do either. How is he supposed to even begin to stop the devil and Armageddon?
It really does seem like he's just following Dean's orders a lot of the time and if Dean does fall off the deep end it'll force Cas to stand up and make his own decisions....
Dean can't continue as he is, but it's going to take something big for him to change. Maybe something as big as saying yes to Michael or finding god. I think by the end of the season though he's going to be a vastly different person.
Either that, or he'll just go off the Future!Castiel deep end and resort to substance abuse when he feels he's lost Dean or can't follow him anymore. It's melodramatic, but I do think Dean is pretty much Castiel's raison d'etre post-4x22. Which is kind of something I hope Dean sees and brings him back from whatever kind of despair or self-inflicted exile (that's if he hasn't said yes to Michael yet). Between that and the possibility of Sam using his powers again (a very fresh fear as of 5x14), maybe these will be the motivations that will finally have Dean embracing whatever strength he needs to complete his Hero's Journey? Even at the potential loss of self (destruction of the ego)?
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"Let. Me. In."
:D
I have great trouble resigning the Jimmy/Castiel thing in my head without applying my own fanon to make it better. Jimmy most certainly wouldn't want to cheat on his wife, and even if Cas can suppress him under normal circumstances, why would he have done it in that instance? (The hooker thing.) Cas didn't want to screw the hooker. In this case, you could say Famine is just that strong (to make Jimmy's craving for red meat stronger than Castiel's will). But what about the hooker thing? Fanon helps!
I do think that Jimmy is still in there because it personally doesn't make any sense to me that Jimmy's body would crave a specific food on its own. The foods you like aren't all about biology.
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I'd imagine he did it because a big part of him is still the Good Little Soldier and the hooker thing was Dean's idea, whom he gave up everything for. Cas switching out one CO for another. Maybe some kind of curiosity of human experience, even if just an analytical sense (but he didn't seem all that analytical in "The End"), though if it was curiosity he was terrified of it.
I do think that Jimmy is still in there because it personally doesn't make any sense to me that Jimmy's body would crave a specific food on its own. The foods you like aren't all about biology.
I'd agree with that. If it was just the physical body, it would make more sense it would be craving food in general (the body likely not had any food at all since "The Rapture" and the beer in FTBYAM), not just red meat.
Though I get a feeling they've kept Jimmy around to imply messianic properties to Castiel. He's still both human (Jimmy) and divine (Castiel). How Cas was tied directly to that "Jesus Saves" sign in "Abandon All Hope" (also written by Edlund). How he was dead, but mysteriously brought back to life. Then there's the initials. That's Cameron-esque "John Connor" levels of subtlety right there.
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Dean mentioned White Castle burgers, too. That's very specific. (I don't know if that was supposed to be taken literally or just a joke Dean was making, since White Castle burgers have a reputation for being very addictive. I've known more than one person who love them like crack.)
>> Then there's the initials. That's Cameron-esque "John Connor" levels of subtlety right there.
What else could J.N. stand for? Or do you mean Jimmy/Castiel, J.C.?
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And we see all the way into "The End" future, no matter how horrible it was, Cas was still following Dean's orders unquestioningly. No matter how insane they were.
Of course, Jimmy might not have even been conscious of what was happening at that moment. Still bothers me. :D
It would have definitely have bothered me. Even if Jimmy was completely unconscious during it, it will be like a coma patient getting raped or something. Just major squick, all around.
Dean mentioned White Castle burgers, too. That's very specific. (I don't know if that was supposed to be taken literally or just a joke Dean was making, since White Castle burgers have a reputation for being very addictive. I've known more than one person who love them like crack.)
LAWLZ I'll have to take your word for it, never tried White Castle. Tho had you said In-n-Out....?
What else could J.N. stand for? Or do you mean Jimmy/Castiel, J.C.?
Jimmy + Cas. The initials work with Jimmy + Claire too, incidentally (the only two that Cas possessed).
I also was wondering if Jimmy, or James, could be a reference to Jesus' older brother.
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I'm really not sure what would be North Texas' special burger experience. Maybe Dairy Queen?
Shows you how much of the Bible I haven't read; I didn't even know Jesus had an older brother! :D I bet the writers are going for all kinds of symbolic things this season, things we won't even realize until it's all over.
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Oh, I think I smell a season six storyline.
'Jimmy is still alive in there, so wtf was up with letting Cas nearly bang a hooker?'
Not to mention the drug use and orgies in The End which was also written by Ben.
'This is probably one of the few eps this season Show has really utilized the fact it has *three* leads, all of whom have chemistry with each other.'
So true, unlike most of the writers, Ben seems to actually know what to do with Castiel.
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Ben seems to like to graph Dean's human attributes onto Castiel. It makes sense considering how close he is to Dean, Dean would be Cas' one real teacher of the human experience. Yet they tell us the near carnivorous red meat craving was a Jimmy thing in this ep, incidentally, that just also happened to be a Dean thing.
Slight tangent, but Jimmy and Dean are a study in contrasts. Jimmy pretty much had the fantasy white picket fence life that Dean often fantasizes about, but he tossed it aside when Heaven came a'callin and a choice he ultimately ended up paying for (and apparently is still paying for). Right now, Dean would probably give just about anything to *not* be Heaven's golden boy.
So true, unlike most of the writers, Ben seems to actually know what to do with Castiel.
And just about everything else this season. He seems to be the only one that's actually writing about the Apocalypse amongst the writers.
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Ain't that the truth. To say I've been very underwhelmed by the Apocalypse storyline would be a bit of an understatement. I understand that they couldn't have all Apocalypse all the time but they could have tried harder to tie it into there stand alone episodes.
'Ben seems to like to graph Dean's human attributes onto Castiel.'
That makes sense. I couldn't help but feel that when Cas said he would kill Anna if she tried to kill Sam was something Dean would say (and has said to various people).
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I really do hope that Dean gets something to hope for, myself. Boy needs it desperately.
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Dean's also not defined by that emptiness, anymore than War called Sam on his megalomania issues. Yes, these things are there in them both, but that's not all they are.
Dean needs a reason to live, period. I just don't think being tied to Sam at the hip is cutting it anymore (and hasn't done for awhile, kind of has been a real burden actually). If one tilted their head and squinted, you could consider the cannibal lovers a metaphor for how Sam and Dean are with each other anymore. They're loving each other to their detriments, to their deaths (Dean made the deal for Sam, Sam poisoned himself with demon blood partly to take care of Dean/do what he believed Dean couldn't). If things stay as they've ever been, they'll keep chewing until there's nothing left. "The relationship between you and your brother seems dangerously co-dependent." No shit, Sherlock.