retro_eidas: (Default)
retro_eidas ([personal profile] retro_eidas) wrote2007-04-21 09:20 pm
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Doctor Who - 304 - Daleks in Manhattan

Or is that Daleks in Metropolis (the poor huddled masses vs the machine with the hero/middleman and his lady trying to save the city before it crumbles from bottom-up) perhaps with a side of "King Kong" (but with pigs/Daleks instead of giant apes)? Although I'm glad I have ultimately disagreed with the BBC Newsround review of this ep. I liked it. More than I thought I would (even with the Daleks channeling the Borg with a detour at Cthulu) ... and I'm one of those people that wouldn't really mind the Daleks buying a nice condo in Florida, settle down and play some shuffleboard or something (or maybe swan off over to "Torchwood" and let Jack, Ianto and posse chase/get chased around by the exterminating pepperpots for awhile). It still did feel like set-up a bit for it's second part, but not obnoxiously so. I definitely liked it better than "Rise of the Cybermen" last year and so I call it a win.

And another ep taking place mostly underground. "Spire to Heaven"? "You put the devil in me"? (Damien?) Is the Heaven and Hell theme more gratuitous this season or is it just me? And last season had "The Satan Pit"... but this season it feels just more more.

Although "1+1+1=3... you put the devil in me"? Three?? What kind of kinky stuff is that foreshadowing? [Ten/Martha/Jack OT3 FTW!!!]

So the human race to the (emo)Daleks are the Daleks to the Doctor? "My planet is gone, destroyed in a great war. Yet versions of this city are stamped throughout history. The human race always continues." "They survive. They survive when I lose everything." Obvious parallel there, but an interesting one nonetheless. Humans are the Daleks' Daleks!

Diagoras+Sec=OTP cuz they make teh babiez!! With a face only a mommy could love.

Speaking of "Skaro", is this going to be the season of the name dropping? We got "Gallifrey" (finally!!) in "The Runaway Bride", now we get "Skaro". Maybe some other names of more squee could be dropped? [In light of "You are not alone... "Romana" would be a nice one. A very nice one. WAY nicer than "The Master" in fact (although I'm sure John Simm will be amazing, but... The Master isn't Romana).]

"I'll kill you for this." Heeee! Martha turned me a little gay with that. Just a little. The "hot potato in the sharp suit" giving Diagoras the Evil Eye reminded me of my heterosexuality right quick. Although, like others, I was anticipating him licking the radioactive jellyfish then Martha, Solomon and Frank from Alabama (and the audience) dying from the squick. I also need to say I loved her taking up the Doctor's role (as he was prolonging being recognized by his old buddies for apparently as long as possible) in his stead even if she was terrified. Did better than Rose in TCI! The Sycorax just laughed at her. The Daleks, otoh, actually answered Martha. She did pick up that Dalek-speak very quickly, didn't she?

I have to say Murray Gold was like... channeling "The Omen" meets "Faust" or something with that end music (and I'm glad I didn't go nuts with the volume otherwise I'd probably still be ringing in my head now). Crazy and kind of thick with the melodrama but still a bit awesome.

I can't imagine the woman was based on the actual Tallulah Bankhead, if so it was only a passing similarity (both famous in the 30s and the moxie). Tallulah Bankhead? Not so much with the monogamy (even despite a raging STD and hysterectomy... yeah).

**Here be spoilers**["We've had wars. I was a soldier myself. I swore then I'd survive, no matter what" ...and this would make Diagoras a good Dalek? It incidentally doesn't make him a half-bad Master either from the sound of things (The Master being chummy with the Daleks in the past. The Master is also known for his survivalist tendencies. He also would have, in theory, been a survivor from that "great war"). Ok, so the Master stuff is still all technically spec as nothing has been outright confirmed (until Radio Times puts it on their fraking cover, of course. Gotta love that [in]famous [in]discretion). You know, I am hoping for just possibly something shocking coming out of the finale apart from the non-shock of The Master's return.

I wonder below if a possible truly shocking thing might have something (unpleasant) to do with Rose or maybe Bad Wolf (hence the reasons behind the consistent mentions of "Rose" not necessarily having to do with the Doctor's ex-gf angst of tediousness). If for any reason I can't imagine the godhood, however brief, on Rose's part had absolutely no unintended, less-than-benevolent consequences at all. Even if it might have seemed beneficial at the time... as often many of the Doctor's ideas seem great and often unavoidable even as he has a conscience, but then he has shown he can go too far. We already know at least one unfortunate side effect of the Bad Wolf in Jack's inability to die (Jack who is coming back near the end of this season in "Utopia") which go against one of the basic grains of Who's "everything has it's time" as we're reminded by Boe in "Gridlock". It's just not right in the greater scale of the universe. Rose made Jack immortal, which did save his life but garnered a wrong side effect, despite her good intentions. What else may she have done spreading her name across time and space? Again, the Doctor himself has done a fair few good intending things which had catastrophic consequences (Road to hell is paved with what?). From what I hear about Saxon being the new prime minister (and the Master), the deposing of Harriet Jones and her Golden Age could very well end up classified in that catastrophic consequences category).

Briefly about the fate of possibly multiple Time Lords... we have the de-evolved into beasts Macra (who once had a "Galactic empire") in "Gridlock". The exiled (and trapped) CarrioniteS in "The Shakespeare Code". Now we have the not-beast/not-human Pigmen (being used as slaves by Sec & co) in this ep. This is crack!spec of the purest order, but ... I'm still wondering of the possibiliy of Time Lords having turned / been transferred into humans for some reason (a Plan B or a failsafe in case of Dalek invasion / Gallifrey's destruction / Master-induced / Bad Wolf?), but with their memories wiped or repressed. Now they're possibly at the mercy of the Master... but they don't know they're imprisoned/enslaved? It will be up to the Doctor to release them... however, the conundrum lies in that if he were to release them? Would they be grateful and call bygones on the destruction of the home planet / their superior alieness or would they be desirous of a little revenge?

Although on the lines of Diagoras being a good candidate for Dalekhood and a decentobvious parallel with the Master... I actually think Dalek Sec = The Master and thus how and why the Master survived the Time War. Also probably explains how Sec got his hands on that Time Lord prison ship in "Doomsday". It also explains why Dalek Sec was so adamant on the Daleks embracing change and survive no matter the cost. Yes the Cult of Skaro are the free-thinking hippies of Dalekverse or whatever, but ... even the other cultmembers opposed Sec's ingenuity. As it does go against the grain of the Daleks entire modus operandi. Sec is a survivor not just because I think he has a unique Dalek mind, but I don't think his mind is truly Dalek at all... it's a Time Lord's mind. A Time Lord's mind that has been known for it's evasion skills and diabolic masterminding. I'd throw the (fairly anvilicious) "meet your new masters" (Sec being the leader of those "masters") as another clue-by-four. Also how/why the reason for the fug that is the hideous progeny of Sec's. Sec's Son... Secson....Saxon, anyone?
]

However, I'm starting to wonder about all these "rose" references and I don't necessarily mean in the way of the Doctor's ex-gf angst. I know that Rusty claimed that "Saxon" would be this season's Bad Wolf and Torchwood of recurring foreshadowy finale references... but "rose" has gotten consistent episodic mentions, moreso than "Saxon", and not all directly involving the Doctor. If not Rose than just roses (there was also an "SS Rose" poster in "The Shakespeare Code", pictured here). We've got Tallulah and her daily "rosebuds" from boyfriend Lazslo. Now apart from my mind going straight to sleds and besides it being part of a saturine romantic relationship, the "rosebuds" seemed a bit much... and when that happens it makes me suspect this might Mean Something. BUT if it does Mean Something, I'm not thinking this will somehow lead to some ultra floofy nausea-inducing shipness (but then I was never much of a Ten/Rose shipper)... but something not so pleasant. Something on the lines of what Lilith attempted to do in "The Shakespeare Code", tempt the Doctor with "the distant Rose", but on a much bigger, and probably much more dramatically and suspense effective, scale. Since where finale nemeses are concerned, Lilith is small potatoes and didn't put up any real temptation for the Doc thus no thrill in that at all. Whatever strength the Doctor believes he gains from Rose, I would bet dollars to donuts it can and probably will be used against him as well. I also wouldn't be shocked too greatly if it might boil down to a choice for the Doctor. Martha or Rose? And I could easily suspect Rusty has pilfered off with a bit of JK Rowling's - the other of the genius of genius words even liek Shakespeare totally uses yo - EVOL and probably gets a bit of a sick thrill from the interwebs shipper wars.

I'm also not entirely sure what I'm supposed to "hope" for Rusty? "Hope" Ten & Martha turn into Ten/Rose (because I don't want that. At all.)? I am content with the Not Ship of much chemistry, denial and UST. I'm content with it because if I do fall for your "hope", I'll probably meander into this confusing and often unfortunate realm of canon Teh Ship and Rusty's Greatest Canon Ships EVAR are somewhat of a mixed bag for me. It could go well... or not so much.

[identity profile] fani.livejournal.com 2007-04-22 04:07 am (UTC)(link)
Jack, Ianto and posse chase/get chased around by the exterminating pepperpots for awhile)

LOL, they should.

The thing that bug me the most is the put-on American accent. Come on BBC, you've got better dialogue ciaches than that!!

[identity profile] eido.livejournal.com 2007-04-22 04:17 am (UTC)(link)
Err, yeah. I thought the less said about the accents the better. Although Frank and Solomon weren't so bad. However I suppose this answers why only the British New(x15) Yorkers were saved in "Gridlock".

[identity profile] fani.livejournal.com 2007-04-22 05:23 am (UTC)(link)
LOL, or their excuse is "English accent is the last stage of evolution on speaking English"

which is lame. I like Canadian accent/New York accent too.

[identity profile] a-caged-heart.livejournal.com 2007-04-22 09:58 pm (UTC)(link)
I must be honest here. I look forward to reading your review every saturday night/sunday morning nearly as much as I look forward to new episodes. I find myself nodding and smiling and enjoying your insight. I thank you for that.
*big smiles for you*

The one moment that grabbed me above all other ones in this episode, heck, pretty much the four episodes of this series thus far, is that one wordless moment between Diagoras and Ten. Damn, it was a real "Whoa" moment, with a capital "W". I'm not certain here, but I cannot recall any other moment quite like that with Tennant in the role. There was that brief bit of testosterone, and I felt that the Doctor showed...menace there. In that oh-so-brief pause and slow turn of his, I felt the chill and even some danger. And it was all done with body language alone. Dammit, I'm gonna watch that bit again now. No yelling, no shouting...just...body language.

I really didn't think I'd like this episode as much as I did. Up until now Gridlock set the bar as far as episodes, but in this one, Mr. Tennant really wowed me. This is going to one great series.

Looking forward to next week, and the first place I will visit will be here, to read what you have to say.

[identity profile] eido.livejournal.com 2007-04-23 04:01 am (UTC)(link)
Looking forward to next week, and the first place I will visit will be here, to read what you have to say.

Thanks, but seriously don't encourage me. My next rambly review will be like twice as long... and that scares me on a deep personal level. heee

The one moment that grabbed me above all other ones in this episode, heck, pretty much the four episodes of this series thus far

I already know I'm getting the series on DVD. I hadn't felt that way since the awesome of Eccleston and S1. And I definitely don't feel that often for series I know that will set me back $70+. Four eps!!

is that one wordless moment between Diagoras and Ten. Damn, it was a real "Whoa" moment, with a capital "W". I'm not certain here, but I cannot recall any other moment quite like that with Tennant in the role.

Tennant has been totally impressing me this season. I mean, he was good last season (when he wasn't needlessly raising the decibels)... but not like he's been these four eps together and honestly, I do think it's a big part on Freema and the companion cast specifically to complement him. Not a slight on Billie Piper at all because I do think she is a very strong actress... but she was cast based on her strength with Eccleston and I don't consider myself some obsessive Nine/Rose shipper or anything, but.... because of Piper cast as Eccles companion I just never latched onto the Ten/Rose thing (hurt too as it was being sold as this Big Epic Love that I never really bought but ended up grating more than anything as I felt I was being told I should love it and almost made to feel deficient somehow for not). Freema/David just play off each other so damn well (and don't get me started on the chemistry). Like she's bringing out these fantastic performances in him, but skill I always knew that was there because I've seen him in other things where he's actually allowed to act and not be SHOUTY DOCTOR ALL THE DAMN TIME!!!

David is impressing me so much and seriously, it's about damn time he showed some of that gravitas and subtlety. And WORD about the menacing in that Diagoras scene. God damn, seriously scary bastard in that. Ten was already the scariest Doctor of them all... but it's a scene like that that truly drives it home (not ranting manically at Satan in a hole. That's all a bit bullshit really). I hope they bring more of that this season.

And it was all done with body language alone. Dammit, I'm gonna watch that bit again now. No yelling, no shouting...just...body language.

heee I have to admit it's amusing that it's pretty much a given in fandom, even amongst some of the rabid fangirls, that Shouty!Ten = the suck. You just wanted Villain of the Week in S2 to shoot him with Ritalin or something.

I really didn't think I'd like this episode as much as I did. Up until now Gridlock set the bar as far as episodes, but in this one, Mr. Tennant really wowed me. This is going to one great series.

Possibly best of the new series easily, even better than the first series and that's saying something from me as I actually did love Eccleston as an actor prior Who. Nine was so very intense and however fubar the relationship with Rose, it had a very intriguing dynamic with a lot of facets to it. That kind of... went away in series 2... then it's like we're hit with this runaway freight train of awesome in series 3. With an all new major cast member and everything and it's better than ever. Even with stupid plots that probably would make me laugh in any other series (I mean, seriously, that Dalek Hybrid looked like a bastard child of Cthulu and one of those witches from Beastmaster dressed like Al Capone)... but it somehow all comes together here. It's like Who was sitting on it's laurels in S2 , saving the good shit for S3.

[identity profile] a-caged-heart.livejournal.com 2007-04-23 12:23 pm (UTC)(link)
I finally got around to watching The Runaway Bride over the weekend, (yeah I know...I'm a baaaaaaaad girl), and while he did have his manic moments, he really seemed subdued and at the same time he seemed to open up a differnet level we haven't seen. "You need someone to stop you...." Hmmm....

I grew to like Eccleston a lot, but didn't expect to. Having been a relatively passive viewer way back when, in the Tom Baker years, and then into the Peter Davison years (yup, I had a kid crush on Davison then, but that came from that vet show he was on), I expected a more....wacky? Doctor. But even with all that was going on, the new series, and Eccleston in particular was something that came out of the kitchy closet and became the sci-fi I grew to love. It grew up, and wasn't just for kids any more. I see Tennant's Doctor evolving even more along those lines. I read somewhere that this Doctor has the potential of being a genocidal Doctor. (or is he already?) Whoa and whoa. Emo Doctor=lots of great stuff. He isn't just depressed at losing Rose, he's at full blown tormented mode.

Now I admit I kind of like the shouty moments, at times. Tennant is so good at it and you almost expect it from him. But those quieter, subdued, marvelously menacing moments are the real SQUEE! for me. And you mentioned farther down that you'd like to see him get jealous. HA!!! An overly possessive Emo/depressed/tormented Doctor? SQUEE!!!!!!!!!

A shippy moment for me would be Martha hauling off and belting him in the jaw. Knock him down, give him a fat lip. It worked well for Donna in TRB, and would work really well here too, IMO of course.

[identity profile] eido.livejournal.com 2007-04-23 10:04 pm (UTC)(link)
"You need someone to stop you...." Hmmm....

It really does put all sorts of thoughts in one's head (re: the last companion / The Doc's behavior in TRB or hell, Ten's general "no second chances" behavior). Also the implication of what he says at the end of "Gridlock". That last season wasn't so much a cure, but one big long attempt to forget or ignore the issues of Nine. But yet this suppression also possibly aggravating an underlying scariness, erupting in his dealing with the Racnoss and her progeny.

It makes me feel kind of anxious for Martha (if I wasn't a bit already, even if the breakneck pacing of the four eps of this series has distracted me for the most part). What has this girl gotten herself into? Can she really be the "someone to stop [him]"? I probably wouldn't be surprise Rusty may sugarcoat the depth of Ten's darkness somewhat (because if you really took the time to think of it... it probably comes off a lot worse than he's probably intending). However, I am very curious about if he will address something like Ten Facing The Ramifications of His (Genocidal/Faux-God) Actions or how far Rusty intends to go with it. Also how Martha will react to it all. Pushing the Doom Button on Gallifrey was noticably omitted from Ten's waxing poetic about his dead planet/peoples.

I read somewhere that this Doctor has the potential of being a genocidal Doctor. (or is he already?)

He already is. Gallifrey go boom? The Racnoss children? The Cyberpeople? What kind of person (nine centuries old or not) would result from killing (or believing to have killed) one's entire planet and people? Probably the kind that probably wouldn't have all that much mercy anymore (he admitted as much in "School Reunion", didn't he?) Granted, these things seemed to have to go down the way they did, but... still. Does Ten's favorite litany "I'm sorry. I'm so sorry." really cut it? All things considered? Especially weighed against, "That's just the sort of man I am." of almost shocking coldness from this guy who is supposed to be this childhood hero figure? I'd think, that if the Time Lords really were alive (but then, err, not per the Textbook Enigmatic), they probably wouldn't be so quick to call bygones on the Doctor. Anything but.

I just can't help but think Ten still has some kind of enormous (possibly imminent) cosmic comeuppance waiting in the wings ... and losing his little (unquestioning, human idealized/envied, sweet but naive, methadone-stand-in of a) girlfriend is likely not it.

A shippy moment for me would be Martha hauling off and belting him in the jaw. Knock him down, give him a fat lip.

I definitely would like to see those two get into a big, teeth bared and unguarded, row at each other. I'd welcome anything with The Doctor, especially Ten, showing more sides of himself preferably in a not-so-intentional way and then ends up saying more than he would normally to newest security blankets. Speak some truth damn it. That's as long as I can believe Martha wouldn't run away in terror or immediately demand to go home (as, probably, any sensible human being not Liek In Lurve with the Doctor would/should). Martha does seem to be designated as the one who will truly help the Doctor heal ("Gridlock"), but not through the lying or pretending. As it seems she's not going to put up with that shit... but it's a bit unfair to her as well because she just doesn't really know the full scale of that apocalyptic can of worms she's opened / wants to open / threatens to open. I hope Rusty can pull off her apparently being this real healing factor for Ten without turning her into some Mary SueRose.

[identity profile] a-caged-heart.livejournal.com 2007-04-24 12:50 am (UTC)(link)
No second chances...

THAT'S the bit I forgot about!!!! That cold phrase.... *shivers*

As to the genocidal Doctor, I went back and looked up what someone had said. Emo Doctor=genocidal Doctor, so...aww poo, this ain't looking too good.

Speak some truth damn it.

*imagines "the" truth coming out...the bit about Gallifrey...* Jeebus, that is going to be one hell of a breakdown scene (if it happens that is). Holy hell and a half...Martha shouting at him to spill...his eyes just getting so dark and distant and cold and pained..."I did it...I'm responsible.

*stops self before tearing up*

Come on Saturday!!! And the next...and the next.

The sort of good news is that Sci-fi will begin showing the new series in July, undoubtedly with a marathon of the first two series leading up to the premiere of TRB. WHOSQUEE for Jully!!!

[identity profile] eido.livejournal.com 2007-04-24 02:36 am (UTC)(link)
As to the genocidal Doctor, I went back and looked up what someone had said. Emo Doctor=genocidal Doctor, so...aww poo, this ain't looking too good.

Add that to the very deliberate feeling Dalek and Doctor paralleling in Saturday's ep?

It also felt like there were pretty heavy shades of S1's "Dalek" in the ep too. Martha probably will do something at the end of next Saturday that will harken back not only to Rose at the end of that ep (but will unique in it's own way, probably or hopefully with some more forthcomingness on the Doctor's part considering Martha's current record) and also be a throwback to Donna's foreshadowing of the Doctor needing someone to tell him to stop.

But it's scary to think about that there's probably less than we all might believe keeping the Doctor from crossing the line that was there in "Dalek". A line, you could say, he's since already crossed. Now he needs to come back again... and Martha, I'm thinking, is probably being set up as key to that in one way or another.

*imagines "the" truth coming out...the bit about Gallifrey...* Jeebus, that is going to be one hell of a breakdown scene (if it happens that is).

The Doctor better hope he's the one tells her first, because coming from anyone else as it would most likely be all the worse way of a revelation. However, it is a possibility now c/o Boe's "You are not alone". The Daleks are already one other venue she could learn this info. That would or should promise some serious drama as well. Talk about testing Martha's faith she seems to have in the Doctor. Either choosing to side with the Doctor (who has saved her life and that of countless others, but also isn't necessarily famous for his forthrightness and these four eps by themselves he's been scary around Martha and god knows how much scariness is yet to come) or the stranger - however wolf in sheep's clothing (s)he could seem - who could be claiming all these good intentions to protect her from the planet-obliterating alien monster.

The sort of good news is that Sci-fi will begin showing the new series in July

Fantastic! I really hope this series does well and Sci-Fi promotes the hell out of it. Considering how entertaining these early eps have been and with the right promotion the ratings could get a boost.

[identity profile] eido.livejournal.com 2007-04-24 02:57 am (UTC)(link)
Now I'm veering away from the scary, but what did you think of all the sex metaphors in DiM? Or hell, this whole damn season so far? I thought it might have been Jose Cuervo talking after TSC or me fitting sexy metaphor where there might not be thanks to the hot new companion who has the crazy sexy chem with the hot Doctor... but after DiM? I am thinking it Means Something. What that is I haven't a clue, but... let's tally, shall we?

In S&J: Martha being older (than Rose) and actually *gasps* talking about the Doctor being a desirable object (despite all the cutesy ship of Ten/Rose, they never really outright flirted or ever actually talked in that way with each other. No where near so forward. Martha lays the cards out her first ep in), the "fetish" leather slab, the "genetic transfer", the vampirism (that whole scene of the Doctor being restrained by the leather "fetish" while a vampire is sucking out his fluids thru a straw.... talk about erotica undertones) and all the overt flirting/suggestiveness between Ten & Martha in S&J (Basically picking her up outside a pub. The behavior of any normal bloke who was looking to get some, but it's not normal as the Doctor is not a normal bloke... but how it looks from the outside looking in? It's incredibly suggestive).

In TSC: The teeny tiny bed, randy Shakespeare, "57 academics just punched the air", temptress Lilith, Shakespeare calling Martha his "Dark Lady" (in the sonnets, "Dark Lady" was a prostitute), that first scene at the beginning where the (horny) old hags kill/devour that nubile lad and you see pieces of his clothing flying everywhere.

In Gridlock: Not quite so much naughty as apparently the writers were leaning more towards the oh so wholesome evangelical theme, but there were many couples, babies and one pregnancy.

In DiM: Dalek Sec sex (nuff said... and eww) and cross-species procreation (sex = survival. Also what the Dalek talking to Diagoras was dancing around but not quite understanding regarding humans capacity to endure, even beyond the "superior" race of the Daleks [or the Time Lords for that matter]), the Empire State building aka the Daleks "spire of heaven" (one giant phallic symbol), Tallulah/Lazslo, Martha & Tallulah's heart-to-heart (Martha admitting she's attracted to the Doctor and Tallulah's dialogue about "starving [lest the show go on]" and "hope" re: Martha's unrequited attraction to the Doctor), "You can kiss me later... you too Frank, if you want", the whole naughty musical revue ("You put the devil in me" How very Hades/Persephone, Isis/Osiris, Nephilim and/or ::insert whatever other supernatural horny alliances of Heaven & Hell here:: of them!!), the bit of vibe between Martha/Frank who only JUST met and Tallulah's namesake is most likely Tallulah Bankhead who, apart from being a famous 30s starlet, was infamous for her sexual escapades.

Is this or is this not the series of sex??

[identity profile] a-caged-heart.livejournal.com 2007-04-24 12:21 pm (UTC)(link)
Series two seemed devoid of all these little "occurences", and the only time season one had "teh sexah" was in the episodes with Jack (and boy was "teh sexah" evident there) Series two was just a long drawn out tweener-hand-holding romp, with little suggestion of anything else.

I do see what you mean however in series three. Sex is everywhere, or at the very least very strong innuendo. Not certain if TPTB are using it as a tool to get the teen crowd into the show, or if the show is evolving from "kiddie" show into a strong adult contender, or if they are taking advantage of Tennant's obvious attributes, or if it is something a bit more. It is everywhere isn't it? Ten really did flirt his way into Martha's life didn't he? He used little tricks to impress her, a wink, a raised eyebrow; it did seem like he was looking for a date rather than looking for a traveling companion.

Procreation, sex, male, female, relationship, love...something is coming (I hope) and frankly, I hope it's more than the man everyone seems to be talking about. I hope it keeps going and doesn't come to a complete screeching halt and become lame. Let the Doctor be who he seems to becoming: A man (with needs...how...human).

[identity profile] eido.livejournal.com 2007-04-25 02:00 am (UTC)(link)
Series two seemed devoid of all these little "occurences", and the only time season one had "teh sexah" was in the episodes with Jack (and boy was "teh sexah" evident there) Series two was just a long drawn out tweener-hand-holding romp, with little suggestion of anything else.

A bit in "New Earth", but that seemed almost all via Cassandra consider as soon as she went bu-bye, so did any/all innuendo.

if the show is evolving from "kiddie" show into a strong adult contender

That could be, but at the same time I'm not sure I could see them pushing the bar anymore than, say, "Spider-Man" would. The family market is too lucrative to risk and they've got "Torchwood" for the more adult fanon (even if Who is the better show).

It is everywhere isn't it? Ten really did flirt his way into Martha's life didn't he? He used little tricks to impress her, a wink, a raised eyebrow; it did seem like he was looking for a date rather than looking for a traveling companion.

Srrsly, someone coming at Who for the first time with S&J and knew nothing about any of the prior story? What would they have thought? Probably that hot guy in the tight suit was picking up that hot woman in the tight jeans.

Procreation, sex, male, female, relationship, love...something is coming (I hope)

Not that I need (or, honestly, really want... as I've seen RTD's apparent Perfect Ship EVER in Ten/Rose and it didn't do anything for me) Teh Ship. I'm more than satisfied with the idea of Ten & Martha UST and their (crazy hot it should be on "Torchwood") chemistry making up for the rest. As Martha is being sold as a smarter companion, I'd really like to see some (UST-addled) banter, maybe some more hugpr0n or eyepr0n, even if it never actually goes there. Srrsly, they have tons of chemistry, it would be ashame to see it wasted. Especially with all the sex innuendo brimming around just about everywhere else. It really wouldn't take much to use that chemistry either, they could be just... standing together, really closely (maybe for little to no reason, so your mind starts wondering why they're so damn close when they don't have to be). They could be like the Steed & Peel for an all new gen.

[identity profile] a-caged-heart.livejournal.com 2007-04-25 07:32 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm not one for shippiness either, preferring to leave that for the fanfic realm, but I feel something is on the horizon. May not be much, but something is coming. A reveal of the past, a falling out of sorts...something. Will Martha move on? Will she move on to Jack perhaps? Or will she come to the realization that Ten just isn't the one who will light her fire the way she wants? Or a drunken one night stand only to be followed by "I'm sorry, I'm so sorry...." (A violation of the "No shagging in the TARDIS" rule) I could be wrong and nothing will arise.

As far as more adult content, there are ways to get there and still hit it over the kiddies heads. Trek managed it. Off screen and innuendo.

Is it Saturday yet? *grumble* I spent three and a half hours yesterday filling up on some old eps, catching up on some eps I only saw part of or completely forgot (damn my senile mind). I have to say that I loved School Reunion (only caught small parts of it before, never saw it all the way through) Touching episode really, although Rose was a bit of a snot.

[identity profile] eido.livejournal.com 2007-04-25 11:02 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm not one for shippiness either, preferring to leave that for the fanfic realm, but I feel something is on the horizon.

RTD has used "unrequited" in re: the Ten/Martha story this series, which is a shipping term if not one that immediately makes one think Happy Happy... and I am totally fine with that. Mostly because I do get a bit of an impression Ten/Martha is intended as an anti-Ten/Rose (hence anti-giggly/obnoxious/giddy/Tru LUV or sooooullmates!!). "Unrequited" with the obvious chemistry between DT & FA? That's drama and tension and conflict and trying to keep a relationship together despite these things. That's the stuff I like.

May not be much, but something is coming.

It's kind of in the nature of fictional "unrequited" storylines, isn't it? I do have my doubts it's going to end up some convenient purely platonic relationship with no hint or suggestiveness at all to it ... because in the words of Tallulah, "How dull is that?!" Not that I think there will really be any requitedness either, but I do think - as the trailers eluded before the season started - the will they / won't they will become a gradually more prominent fixture in their storyline as the season goes on. I could guess (with all this series' randy subtexts so far) more noticable between Ten & Martha, but at the same time they won't go into the melodrama or cutesy of The Ship (or at least not the giddy flouncing about like Ten/Rose essentially became).

As far as more adult content, there are ways to get there and still hit it over the kiddies heads. Trek managed it. Off screen and innuendo.

Which they already seem to be accomplishing. ;) Although that Dalek scene at the end of DiM is already pushing (well?) past innuendo imo, even if it's kind of repugnant to think too much about. LOL

I have to say that I loved School Reunion (only caught small parts of it before, never saw it all the way through) Touching episode really, although Rose was a bit of a snot.

"School Reunion" is some quality tv (Sarah Jane!!). I do remember the scene where it was Sarah - and rather noticably, not Rose - who spoke up as the Doctor's voice of reason in that critical moment with Finch. Although I'd raise your "a bit of a snot" to "deserving of an all out slap". Srrsly, I wanted to hit her at the end of the ep with her obvious disdain at Mickey tagging along.

[identity profile] a-caged-heart.livejournal.com 2007-04-26 10:18 pm (UTC)(link)
"School Reunion" is some quality tv (Sarah Jane!!). I do remember the scene where it was Sarah - and rather noticably, not Rose - who spoke up as the Doctor's voice of reason in that critical moment with Finch. Although I'd raise your "a bit of a snot" to "deserving of an all out slap". Srrsly, I wanted to hit her at the end of the ep with her obvious disdain at Mickey tagging along.

At least she got over her jealousy of Sarah Jane (um...yeah) During it's initial run I didn't find fault with Rose until the final few episodes where all her emotional blubbering was really getting on my nerves. Rewatching some of the episodes now, I am seeing some things that irk me to no end that I missed originally for whatever reason. All of that giggling, hand holding and general high school behavior (As in "Tooth and Claw" for example) set me off with a bad taste in my mouth. She is still good with Nine (on my revisiting the episodes now), but with Ten she...irked me. And I watched that whole final bit in "School Reunion" three times just to make sure I was seeeing the reaction I thought I was seeing in regards to Mickey. Cripes what a brat thing to do. I am now of a "Sh*t or get off the pot" state of mind with her. Do you love Mickey? Or are you simply too much of a wuss to tell him to bugger off because you "lurve" the Doctor? *sigh*. It was that whole playing both sides against the middle that got/gets to me.

Well, at least reports now seem to be saying that in this weeks episode Martha will be given some more meat, and will be doing a hell of a lot more. It's about time, and I can't wait to see what she will come up with.

[identity profile] sparkly-oats.livejournal.com 2007-04-22 11:06 pm (UTC)(link)
BUT if it does Mean Something, I'm not thinking this will somehow lead to some ultra floofy nausea-inducing shipness (but then I was never much of a Ten/Rose shipper)...


All kinds of ditto on that! Also, am I the only one who wanted Martha to get it on with Frank, cute little Southern boy? Thought the high/low intelligence thing was kinda random and made me oddly wonder where Rose would registered. See what the show is doing, it's making me compare Martha to Rose just like Ten keeps doing endlessly. I really hope you're wrong about Rose being a theme throughout the season, we need to move on.

[identity profile] eido.livejournal.com 2007-04-23 04:18 am (UTC)(link)
All kinds of ditto on that! Also, am I the only one who wanted Martha to get it on with Frank, cute little Southern boy?

There was a vibe there, wasn't there? She literally threw herself on him then was so very relieved he was alive... and she just met this guy! Funny I bought it in like 10 seconds compared to the entire Rose/Adam debacle I never bought in S1. Although poor Adam seemed to have "Designated Fuckwit" stamped on his forehead from the start. I see a lot of people want Ten to kidnap Tallulah and make her a third companion, but Frank gets my vote (despite the mildly unfortunate accent).

I really hope you're wrong about Rose being a theme throughout the season, we need to move on.

If it's any consolation, I wasn't speculating it as something shippy at all (although there would be an unavoidable factor there if it was Rose related), but more a dramatic plot/finale revelation thing for some real shock. Because the big reveal now as it stands and to the magnitude it's been spec'd? It just wouldn't be all that shocking. I just hope there is a bit more there somehow. That and I am generally starting to get suspicious of these persistent Rose references. I mean, Ten's emo is one thing, but ... it's like it's anvilicious in this very specific way that makes me think it might Mean Something other than what it suggests on the surface of Ten's ex-gf emo.

This would be rather horribly frustrating considering the space between finales and premieres of Who (and this could be "Heroes" influencing my better judgement), but considering the intensity of the first four eps alone? This series might be most fitting of a cliffhanger end. So far each season had this relatively neat and tidy finale. The "OMFG!!" finale might be overdue.

[identity profile] sparkly-oats.livejournal.com 2007-04-29 06:04 am (UTC)(link)
Definitely a vibe, especially after watching them work together in last night's episode I was all about the Frank love. Especially when Martha said something along the lines of "maybe Frank will know".

Funny I bought it in like 10 seconds compared to the entire Rose/Adam debacle I never bought in S1. Although poor Adam seemed to have "Designated Fuckwit" stamped on his forehead from the start.

Had the exact same thought while watching Frank, how this was so much more natural than that Adam guy, eventhough the chemistry between Frank/Marth was probably not even intentional. It's sad but I was also kinda hoping for a little jealousy from Ten, I totally agree that once Martha stop doting on her from afar and gets some genuine attention from someone he might stop this asinine selfpitying emocrap.

Actually it is a consolation cause it would be great if RTD would make this Rose referencing mean more than just pleasing rabid fans and have it actually have to do with the plot. Not that I like that much better though, it's just the lesser of two evils really. I'd like to let Rose lie, definitely wouldn't like her to be part of a massive finale cliffhanger cause that would elevate her above all the other companions and seriously for what reason?! BTW adore that you're into Heroes, I have 3 shiny new eps waiting for me so I can catch up.

[identity profile] eido.livejournal.com 2007-05-01 02:39 am (UTC)(link)
Definitely a vibe, especially after watching them work together in last night's episode

Martha really does connect with people, I thoroughly enjoyed the Martha/Frank and Martha/Tallulah... Martha is so amazingly magnetic, she attracts fantastic companions of her own (of which she has varying degrees of sexual chemistry as that seems to be something of a requirement this season, yes? ;). heee

It's sad but I was also kinda hoping for a little jealousy from Ten

That's on my wishlist. The guy is just too arrogant for his own good, he really needs to be taken down a peg (or several). Yeah yeah, he's been getting his ass handed to him this season and I probably should have more empathy and we(finally!) have the good emo of dead planet/people back, but... I think a bit of a putdown from the lofty place he hovers over his companion's emotions is kind of needed. He needs to see how much he's unintentionally hurting Martha. Cuz as sensible as she is, if he doesn't open his eyes (and I am hoping that TSC line was foreshadowing of an awakening in the future) she will probably get fed up and leave his ass as she should. But I really want her to stick around. At least for a little while longer, despite the coming/going nature of Who. The chemistry between them is too good to be squandered. So srrsly, Ten needs to get his shit together.

Actually it is a consolation cause it would be great if RTD would make this Rose referencing mean more than just pleasing rabid fans and have it actually have to do with the plot.

I would love it if Princess Time Goddess had some unforeseen ramifications, besides Jack's immortality. I mean, that makes sense, doesn't it? How can someone just have the power of a god all of a sudden and it all just going hunky dory? We already know how Jack turned out, it would be very intriguing if that spilled to other, much bigger, things. Like Bad Wolf bringing the Time Lords (and, I'd guess, the Daleks too) back in some form obviously outside the Doctor's knowledge.

BTW adore that you're into Heroes, I have 3 shiny new eps waiting for me so I can catch up.

The show is CRACK! Did you watch last night? Dear god, I'm going to be clinging to reruns and the Sci-Fi Who schedule to tide me over in the summer. I'm about as obsessed with Heroes as I am Who, I'm just more inclined to be verbose with Who. ;)