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I think Sam will say yes and it's going to be like when John and Bobby were possessed (Bobby's possession they conveniently reminded us of the last ep and went further actually comparing it to Sam's crazy plan re: Lucifer). They smacked Dean around some, but after a certain point (in Bobby's case, when he was about to kill Dean), they managed to fight the possession. Bobby stabbed himself after he gained back control, but John was begging Sam to shoot him with the Colt which Sam couldn't do. So, I predict Lucifer!Sam is either going to stab himself (with an archangel sword?) after Sam gains back control or Sam begs Dean to send him into Lucifer's cage in the Pit. If it's the second option, I think it will probably end much the same as Sam pointing the Colt at possessed!John in S1. They could prove me wrong, they DID have the balls to send Dean to Hell, I just don't think they have it in them to send Sam into Lucifer's cage.

Occam's Razor still says they're going to kill Castiel. It might not be permanent, but I think it will happen anyway. When he's resurrected (again), he'll have full-on heavenly mojo and go back upstairs. I only think they're killing Cas because the Jesus anvils are still banging for him (IIRC, I've only watched 5x21 once, but he landed on a fishing boat in "Delacroix"...or "De la croix", French for "Of the Cross"). However, I think human!Castiel (probably Bobby and Sam too) - those that "keep [Dean] human" - will die before any apotheosis Dean has and I do think Dean is getting one scary apotheosis in order to stop all this mess. Incidentally, I think it will be godified!Dean that will resurrect Cas, Bobby and Sam.

I do think Jimmy is gone (Cas was unconscious, you'd think Jimmy might have been able to exert control back, but the doctors apparently thought Cas was "brain dead", thus Jimmy could be "brain dead"?). With Jimmy possibly out, that means the story's Jesus Christ may now be made up in Dean (human with the Big Destiny) + Castiel (divine BFF) now. Though I always thought that's how it was or would end up, even while Jimmy was there. Dean's the one that's had the creepy, ginormous "The one who started it, is the only one who can finish it" destiny since S4. Cas has gotten a few none-too-subtle Jesus metaphors too (dying a martyr, standing under/over the "Jesus Saves" sign in AAH, the cruciform banishing light with him at the center in PONR, etc). Despite what Death says about Sam in 5x21 ("He's the only one who can stop Lucifer"), it's been DEAN the one they've been saying the past two seasons that's got to stop everything. Not to mention, when Sam tries to take up Dean's destiny, there are usually disastrous consequences (Sam tried to be the big savior last season, but unleashed Lucifer instead). I think the Sam stuff right now is just a distraction tactic and/or a means for Dean to essentially be forced into facing/accepting his apotheosis. Dean's still the one that's got to end Armageddon somehow. Probably with direct help from his other half (Cas). Though now that Cas is largely human, my guess Dean's divinity is coming toute suite. In 5x22, I'd bet dollars to donuts we'll see a reversal. Castiel will be the chthonic one (who will die, again probably along with Bobby and Sam) and Dean the celestial one. Until everything is put back in it's proper place before the very end (Dean goes back to being human, Sam, Bobby and Cas back alive. Cas goes back to being an angel). Dean can't Ascend, otherwise there's no "Supernatural" (unless S6 is taking place in Heaven, which I doubt). But Castiel can.

The fandom-pandering bunch they are, I don't necessarily see the writers getting rid of Castiel/Misha permanently, so I don't see any death being permanent. However, I don't see him being a regular in S6 either with their mentions of closing this apocalypse story out in S5. Cas getting his mojo back and going back to Heaven (probably to rule the place), keeps the option open of Cas/Misha having guest star visits in the future, thus Gamble still able to throw some nuggets at Cas/Misha's sizable fangirl contingent from time-to-time.

Date: 2010-05-07 12:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sailorhathor.livejournal.com
I'm starting to get the feeling that the writers hope we have conveniently forgotten that part about Dean being the only one who can end the Apocalypse. Or they'll cheat and say that Dean really did end it by making the decision to allow Sam to do what he does to end the Apocalypse. Or, you know, by pushing Lucifer!Sam into Hell. The last few episodes have really underwhelmed me on the writing, so I don't hold out a lot of hope for next week's episode being more than mediocre, typical, and pointless angst.

Date: 2010-05-07 12:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eido.livejournal.com
This has been the most underwhelming apocalypse story ever. At least for what the SPN writers could have given us, but didn't. Seriously, I was actually cheering for Chicago to get wiped out, if for any reason to justify the "apocalypse" word they keep throwing around. At this point, I think the season really will end They'll hug it out, crisis averted. Then get rid of those pesky other characters not part of the exclusive bromance, membership of two. I hope rather than believe they'll do something really daring with Dean & Sam (so Dean loves Sam and trusts him to try the crazy Lucifer plan, but when/if it goes awry, that's not enough for Dean to sacrifice the world... for once), but I doubt it.

Date: 2010-05-07 01:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shiro01.livejournal.com
I was so disappointed by the whole Sam is the savior angle. It's getting a bit repetitive and I really wanted Dean to truly shine for one season. I thought it was going to be Season 5, but it doesn't look like it will ever happen. It's just going to be same song like it was for the last 4 years - Sam, the reluctant hero.

Date: 2010-05-07 02:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] love-jackianto.livejournal.com
'Cas getting his mojo back and going back to Heaven (probably to rule the place), keeps the option open of Cas/Misha having guest star visits in the future, thus Gamble still able to throw some nuggets at Cas/Misha's sizable fangirl contingent from time-to-time.'
You know as much as I like Cas, I think I would hate that MORE than him dieing for real. But than I kind of hated how he was basically used as nothing but fan service for a lot of this season. Fan service is all well and good, but I need more than that.

Date: 2010-05-08 11:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eido.livejournal.com
Fan service is all well and good, but I need more than that.

That could be the motto for this entire season.

Date: 2010-05-08 02:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] love-jackianto.livejournal.com
'That could be the motto for this entire season.'
Tell me about it. I just haven' been impressed at all this season. For example, I had such high hopes for Cas (don't get me started on his unseen search for God) this season but I really believe the entire reason they made him a regular character was for fan service. They could have kept him as a recurring character (have him 6-7 episodes instead of the 15??? he did get) and it wouldn't have affected the main plot and/or what little character development he did get this season at all.

Date: 2010-05-07 06:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] 22by7.livejournal.com
Girl it's not just Castiel rocking the Jesus refs - Dean's awesome pizza date with Death was at the Rinascita Pizzeria.

Re: fandom pandering - yes, this is exactly what I'm afraid of.

I found Dean and Bobby's conversation at the end pretty embarrassing and unnecessary and actually kind of laughable. Guess who everyone is ACTUALLY too hard on, Bobby! Guess! He might be sitting right opposite you! Ugh.

At least Castiel apologised to him. I am feeling better about 5.18 now, their crisis. I was half-ready for them to never actually mention it or anything.

Date: 2010-05-08 11:53 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eido.livejournal.com
Girl it's not just Castiel rocking the Jesus refs - Dean's awesome pizza date with Death was at the Rinascita Pizzeria.

Oh holy Jebus anvils, missed that completely!

Heh. Though I love the one who made the infirm walk again was Crowley. I don't think Crowley is God, but maybe directly working for Him? That could be why all those Reapers were around that warehouse. That seemed significant, they were all looking right at it and Crowley obviously thought it significant enough he took it as Death being in there. However, we know he wasn't as he was hanging out in that pizza place. Maybe there was a dying God in there (Death did say he'd reap Him one day). Crowley didn't realize it at first, but when he did he had to skedaddle to get Dean out of there before Dean went storming the castle as a suspicious!Dean does?

Guess who everyone is ACTUALLY too hard on, Bobby! Guess! He might be sitting right opposite you! Ugh.

As I recall, they only tended to be really hard on Sam when he did something incredibly stupid, selfish and/or crazy. Which has been a lot of times the past couple seasons, hence a lot of shouting and "being hard on" Sam. If Dean can get railed on for daring to consider abandoning his family by Bobby in 4x22, then Sam can take a little (from what I can tell, mostly deserved) criticism.

I know Kripke is a Campbell fanboy anyway and that's tended to make me think Bobby was probably going to die eventually, but I really do think the time of mentoring is over for Dean and Sam. If Dean needs to let go of Sam, they both likely need to let go of the daddy figure in Bobby. The time of daddies/daddying seem to be over in SPN, or at least that's how I'm reading it.

Date: 2010-05-12 04:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] x5vale.livejournal.com
*waves*

I just fond your name on a comm and I was curious, so here I am.

I think your speculations are very interesting and I am pretty sure Dean will have a great role in the finale, maybe no the one people are expecting but a great one.

Mind if I hang around and frien you?

Date: 2010-05-13 04:42 pm (UTC)
luminare_ardua: Flowerings- Lotus fractal abstract art (Default)
From: [personal profile] luminare_ardua
*g* Here I am. And belay my request for an invite code. XD

Well Dean is hitting all those Messianic/Jesus anvils, yes, as is Cas (and how!). But I expect that Show will backtrack for some reason or rather, the writers will experience nasty FAIL and have Sam save the day and make up lame assed excuses as to why it wasn't Dean when they spent all of S4 building that up. I suppose they justify it by shifting their focus onto Sam this season. I agree, as you know, that this season has been disappointingly underwhelming.

Dean has been a cthonic figure, or at least associated with traditionally cthonic figures. He's more Mary's boy than John's; and the Goddess is pretty much cthonic in nature. Father figures in myth tend to be associated with Heaven and the sky, hence Heaven's male-dominated hierarchy, Michael assuming the appearance of a younger John Winchester (oh the Daddy issues, and not only the Winchesters's own! This whole frikkin' war has been about the angels's collective "Daddy don't you want/love us anymore?" issues.) and their screwing over Anna (who is not really that likeable, true). Cas is the interesting figure here: at first he was a representative of the Sky Father, then gradually he shifts allegiances over to the other side, humanity's side, that by sheer chance or not have lots of Goddess figures (Jo, Ellen, Pam; we could stretch it and say that since Team Free Will is fighting for all humanity, even put Lisa in there). And then the writers of course kill off all the motherly/Goddessly figures. Pshaw, disappointing in the extreme!

Honestly, I WISH that the writers had thought this season's arc and episodes more thoroughly before they began filming; they didn't, and results are expectedly subpar with the asspulls to save the cobbled together storyline obvious. This arc, if they had intended to close it off at S5, needed very careful plotting and writing to succeed-- and the writers have NOT done that. Heck, Stargate SG-1 and SGA did better jobs on that front. They had coherent stories, and non-arc related episodes that didn't detract from the overall storyline... writers should've taken pointers from Joss Whedon for Dollhouse, Firefly and BtVS, and Angel.

I'd rather have had Show end RIGHT at S4 finale, because then we wouldn't have had the botched laughable effort at an Apocalypse scenario that this season has been. It HURTS. What could've been the crowning jewel of the series has become the albatross about its neck.

Date: 2010-05-13 11:39 pm (UTC)
luminare_ardua: Flowerings- Lotus fractal abstract art (Default)
From: [personal profile] luminare_ardua
You know, I didn't even notice that. LOL. Too busy freaking out exams to notice.

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